Let's Roll Forums - Blogs

Remote controlled planes

clive — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:13:30 GMT

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvi...ssenger_plane/

Remote controlled planes

clive — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 09:11:23 GMT

YouTube - Plane Crash Test

Evidence shippedverseas

clive — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:03:30 GMT

YouTube - 911 Truth: Rudy Giuliani & the Feds Destroyed WTC Evidence

300metre steel

clive — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 11:52:42 GMT

http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/20...ve-images.html

Ken Feinberg

gimother — Sun, 29 Aug 2010 03:02:57 GMT

The GCCF that Ken Feinberg has established is a joke. As of August 27th nobody has been paid. Mr. Feinberg promised that people will be paid within 48 hours for individuals and 7 days for businesses.
Shame on you Mr. Feinberg. You are a liar, oh I'm sorry, lawyer and you know how to manipulate people and make them believe in you. I hope while you are sitting eating your dinner in your home you will think of us on the Gulf Coast. And remember how you have broken a promise you have made to us. As of next week you can reach me oh sorry you wont be able to as all my utilities will be shut off and I probably will be given an evicition notice.
Thank you Mr. Feinber, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

can you Adam and Eve this ? ("Believe")

Mr X — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:19:13 GMT

Thursday, Aug 26 2010 6PM 15�C 9PM 14�C 5-Day Forecast
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Shot in the foot: Propaganda fear as our troops in Afghanistan are given U.S. guns carrying secret Bible codes
By PAUL THOMPSON and IAN DRURY
Last updated at 9:48 AM on 20th January 2010

British soldiers in Afghanistan are to be issued with guns inscribed with references to passages from the Bible - risking handing a propaganda victory to Muslim extremists.

The sights for the Sharpshooter assault rifle, bought this week to boost the fight against the Taliban, are etched with the characters JN8:12.

This is a reference to chapter 8 verse 12 in the book of John, which reads: 'When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life".'

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/...47_468x303.jpg

Controversial equipment: U.S. forces already use the gunsight

The Ministry of Defence said last night it was 'not aware' of the biblical markings on the 400 Advanced Combat Optical Gunsights, bought as part of a �1.5million package.

Critics said references to New Testament scriptures could be used by extremists to persuade Afghans that UK forces see their work as a crusade.

LibDem defence spokesman Willie Rennie said: 'It's pretty shoddy that the MoD missed this.

'It may be used by some of our enemies as evidence to convince its followers that we are engaged in a religious war between Christianity and Islam.'

The equipment was produced by U.S.-based Trijicon, which was founded by a devout Christian.

The inscription JN8:12 on the Army's new gunsights is a reference to John, chapter 8, verse 12, which says: 'When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life"

Former U.S. air force officer Michael Weinstein, who is now a lawyer and secular campaigner, said the inscriptions played into the hands of those who claimed the U.S.-led coalition was a religious war against Islam.

However, Inayat Bunglawala, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said the religious inscriptions were 'fairly harmless'.

Andrew Burgin, of the Stop The War Coalition campaign group, said: 'It is rather bizarre to have any kind of religious inscription on a weapon. Maybe the MoD should have been aware of this.'

Bible inscriptions: One of the military sights in use with the code of 2COR4:6, which refers to the New Testament's Second Corinthians, chapter 4, verse 6, which says: 'For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ'

An MoD spokesman insisted the biblical references were not a 'dealbreaker'.

'Our priority is to buy the best-performing equipment available on the market,' he said.

The Sharpshooter rifles provide a greater range than the Army's current SA80s, and also than the AK47s used by insurgents, reducing the danger to marksmen.

Presidential Power? - Not So Quick!

spanner — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 03:49:05 GMT

Presidential Power? - Not So Quick!

The power base of America does not rest in the hands of the President, Congress, nor the Senate, they alone can do nothing, however, collectively, they have given their arm of authority to the group known as the ACLU which has been commissioned to remove any and all Christian influence, and enable the religion of their choice, that being the Islamic radical form of Muslim. Their purpose is clear as they have allowed America to run amok with their sins and evil, now they bring forth the one religion which institutes in it's foundation, the corrective pathway of death under the steel fiber of the guillotine. It is being setup by permission of God Himself, that man/womankind must make a decision to whom they shall serve, well did Bob Dylan pen the words, "You have to serve somebody" and in the echoes of Christ, "Choose you this day whom ye shall serve, either God unto eternal life or sin/mammon unto eternal punishment". The last church to be realized must do so through the fires of commitment, to be born the church called Laodecian, and the method chosen is that of the guillotine or beheading, the so-called "civilized" man/woman whom has declared in this age that there is no God or heaven is advancing quickly, to decisive actions on their knees, or a shaken fist to the heavens realizing from whence their calamitous destruction emboldens humanity. But make not the mistake, you will choose the one or the other, as the governments of the world are aligning themselves through their own greed and evil to annihilate most of the peoples which enter their abode and power, in the world's arena of the Great Tribulation Period. The choice will not enable you to stay alive in the flesh of your humanity, but death will beckon you by your choice of Christ, or your choice not to accept Christ, but your fate is sealed irregardless to that of death, of the fleshly body you now have, whether the choice is for Christ or no. For the space of three years while you eat, drink, the lusts of your fathers, you will hear daily the voices of the two witness's who shall stand and prophesy the coming destruction of the land and peoples, they will have in their company the 144,000 who are pure and virgin of the Jews. After three years, those who prophesied unto you shall themselves be removed unto heaven, the two witness's themselves, will die upon the street in Jerusalem having laid and born the death for 3.5 days, and then shall arise and be caught up in a cloud unto heaven. The 3.5 days illustrating that the world and Israel have 3.5 years left for the immense pouring out of the Wrath of God, both law and grace having been put to death, bring forth now the only system left, that of Wrath. Well did Christ state that "By whatsoever judgment you met, it shall be turned back to you the same" Those whom lived in lavish and with disregard for their fellow humans and have taken the Mark of the Beast, bear that like Esau, they have chosen food/drink over eternal life, they shall now be stung by the fiery serpent and bear much sickness, but will be prevented from death until the time of the end, and that determined will be poured upon the desolate house. In His discourse on Mount Olive, Christ stated that your life is more than food or drink or clothing, His mention of clothing is made for those whom shall bear their nakedness for the 3 years assigned in the Tribulation Period, they shall be made to go naked throughout the streets as others shall occupy their homes and their lifestyles they had accumulated. Although evil shall embrace the earth at that time, it too shall be bound by means of the Wrath poured upon the populace, their will be no desires of the flesh of man for that of companionship or relationships one to another, but will be exacted upon all for the purpose of the guillotine and death. Betrayal will loom among all the people by what once were parents, children, siblings, however, since the love of God has been removed from the earth, there shall be no allegiance to any by relationship nor love, each person shall be given over to their own view of self. Thirst shall consume all for water, as the oceans shall be made dry as well the waterways throughout the land, no life shall be found in any of the waters, as all will die in the deluge brought by the Sun, whose scorching heat shall make all men/women black and all shall be made bald. The resource for food, shall be the children of men/women born in that day, as they shall eat their children for lack of food, men/women without the available source of children, shall gnaw their own arms, but death shall remain fleeting until the time appointed. Mercy shall be found on all those who go under the guillotine, so again what is intended for evil, is found good for those whom have bent the knee, both to Christ and the guillotine. Those whom bear the Mark of the Beast shall never be forgiven by the LORD, and shall move with great vengeance and malicious disregard for the death of those who do not accept the Mark of the Beast, the number of his name, in the hand or forehead or that worship his image. These have "soldout" their souls and their thinking and reasoning mechanism unto the Beast and by the computer chip they will be controlled by the beast, until they enter hell and then the lake of fire.

Six Churches Removed - One Remains
In Revelation 5, we find that all the "true" church is removed from the Earth along with the Holy Spirit, so that God may judge the wickedness of man/womankind. Some have confused this with those in Revelation 6:9-11, but this is an impossibility, being the church that now is, as the "true" church found today, is indwelled by the Holy Spirit and Christ Himself, and God will NOT judge His Son twice as shown in the writings in Numbers 20 concerning Moses "smoting the rock twice". Most of those whom believe the church, if not all of them, believe in a "works" mentality as they embrace for the most part that Christ saved them but it is up to that individual to keep his salvation by his/her own works of merit, even in the understanding that all of our works are as filthy rags, and that Christ began a good work in you (salvation by the cross) and it is He who shall finish it, being the author and finisher of salvation. Regardless, of the view or the viewer and their claims, we are found out of many nation, kindred, tongue and people being made and conformed as one in Christ Jesus by the redemptive power of His blood, by which He has redeemed us unto the Father. These also stumble if asked, if they have been "redeemed" and respond yes, without consideration to the understanding of the word, redeemed, and that by the price paid by the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross, which no man could take part in or now can, except through being born again. The old hymn, "Jesus paid it all, and all to Him I owe, sin left a crimson stain, He washed them white as snow" by Kirk Franklin, bears out the truth that it is through Christ and He alone who is more than able to keep us in Him. We pay Christ great honor calling Him the Son of God, Savior, Redeemer, our purchased Salvation, placing within us His blood and the eating of His flesh, the Comforter - the Holy Spirit, and then we turn to smack Him upon His cheek, with the mockery that we must keep that which He began, making Him the Author of our salvation, but we, the finisher of our salvation, He was more than able to secure our salvation, but His arm is short to secure that same salvation for us, with words we honor Him, but our actions speak a different story, and more than likely this is due to following a religion or a click, instead of study and reading with our own hearts and minds, His Word (not the minister or pastor) unto His Bride - the Bible. If you read the Bible by death, you will find death, if you read the Bible with life you will find life. Even to the point of denying Christ, He Christ, still honors His Word and will not deny Himself, nor that of His promise of eternal security, although our will to deny Christ, will bring much humilation as we would be denied before the Father as an unwilling servant, but nevertheless, a servant. The same rang true from the lips of Peter, whom we know denied Christ three times, and Christ told Him He would do so, and not only at this time, but also the effect given in Galatians 2, and it is a strange thing indeed, for those that follow after the law and the works choose Peter's writing and example to follow, instead of the example given by Christ, and that of the apostle chosen by Christ Himself, to be the apostle of the Gentiles and that being Paul. Paul would also write that the church, that is the Bride of Christ, was not appointed unto wrath, but unto salvation, and this also is ignored by those whom follow after the law and the works of the flesh. In 1 Thessalonians 1:10 the word that is used here is not saved but delivered, and that is very important as delivered is denoted as physical having moved a particuliar thing from one place unto another, but saved is denoted spiritually as the "saving" of the soul. This same language is noted in Joel 2:32 for the Jew, as the Jew shall be delivered in Tribulation, but the church in Acts 2:21 is to be "saved" into Christ. Just as the two words belief and faith have been used as equal interchange of meaning, so too has the words delivered and saved been used in similarity and nothing could be farther from the truth. Faith comes from God only as a substance, but belief is found in all peoples and even the demons, but faith is given unto the church that she might accept and having accepted into faith, can believe in God and His Word. In other words, we need faith to believe in God, as many believe in God but without faith, consider the Muslim who follows after the God of Abraham, but like that of Eve has misidentified just who the LORD is, giving attributes of the birth of Cain, unto the LORD even though Cain was born evil.

The Earth Shall Be Consumed In Great Turmoil

The earth's continential plates shall shift, and the land shall begin to move back into one land mass as men have named it the Pangea effect. Due to all the earthquakes, fires shall erupt and consume the cities and any remaining forestry, etc.., as the earth in the beginning, was Created one land mass, so shall it be again. Men/women shall have massive heart attacks from the fear of the waves of the oceans and waterways throughout the world, this process is now in progression and shall be "speeded" up after the rapture of the body of Christ, His Bride, the church, that now is, and shall be found in heaven in Revelation 5:9-11. The beginning earthquake of plate realignment is found in the nation of Israel and the city of Jerusalem, the apple of God's eye.

Wrath of God is for the unGodly and unrighteous, are you unGodly?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans 1:16-18
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Romans 5:9
Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. Ephesians 5:4-7
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. 1 Thessalonians 1:10
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. 1 Thessalonians 5:8-11

The difference between delivered/saved is much like that of faith/belief

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21

Birth of the church by the Guillotine

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Revelation 6:11-17

/5 earthquakes of Revelation

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Revelation 6:12-17
And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. Revelation 8:5-12
And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. Revelation 11:13
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. Revelation 11:18-19
And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. Revelation 16:18-21

Earth Realignment for the Continental Plates

And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. Revelaion 16:16-21

Laodecia, the church born in Great Tribulation

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Revelation 3:14-22

Earth to be "turned upside down" as the land mass moves to Pangea

Isaiah 23
And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre (spiritual Babylon) shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.
Isaiah 24
Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word. The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. Isaiah 23-24 - 23:15-17 and 24:1-6

Moses was told to just speak to the rock, but he smote the rock

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink. And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him. And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. This is the water of Meribah, because the children of Israel strove with the LORD, and he was sanctified in them. Numbers 20:7-13

Christ does not deny His own Word and promise unto the Bride

It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:11-15

Paul rebukes Peter and Peter's actions toward the circumcision and the Jew

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Galatains 2:11-21
Day of the LORD

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Zechariah 14:1-5

And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it. And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be entreated of them, and shall heal them. In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance. Isaiah 19:21-25

Bob Dylan lyrics from the album, "Slow Train Coming"

Republican "Gay" Party Takeover?

spanner — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 03:42:54 GMT

Former Republican chairman says he's gay

:ban1:

First Came Laura Bush's Support For Gay Marriage and Abortion - Republican Party Becoming Hi-Jacked Or Was It That Way From The Beginning - Why Abortion Could Never Be Overturned By The Party?
:freak:
WASHINGTON � Former Republican Party Chairman [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Ken [COLOR=#366388 !important]Mehlman[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] says in a magazine interview that he is gay. Mehlman, who was campaign manager for President George W. Bush in 2004 and then RNC chairman after Bush's re-election, told The Atlantic in an interview published online Wednesday that he came to the conclusion he is gay recently and wanted to talk about it publicly because he wants to become an advocate for gay marriage. He also thought questions would arise when he participates in an upcoming fundraiser for the group challenging California's ballot measure opposing those marriages. "It's taken me 43 years to get comfortable with that part of my life," said Mehlman, (Eternity is a lot longer, however, Ken may not care about that) now an executive vice president with KKR, a New York City-based private equity firm. "Everybody has their own path to travel, their own journey, and for me, over the past few months, I've told my family, friends, former colleagues and current colleagues and they've been wonderful and supportive. The process has been something that has made me a happier and better person. It's something I wish I had done years ago." Mehlman's leadership positions with the [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Republican [COLOR=#366388 !important]Party[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] came at a time when some in the party were working to put anti-gay ballot measures before the public in several states. He has said he tried to convince Republican officials privately not to attack gay marriage, The Atlantic reported. He also said that, as a solitary Republican, he could not go against the party consensus. Mehlman, who has never married, said he wishes he had tried to expand the GOP's outreach to the gay community and worked openly against political initiatives opposing gay marriage.

Housing Collapse Continues

spanner — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 03:39:09 GMT

Why the Housing Market Is Plummeting So Rapidly
:burglar:
August 24, 2010

WASHINGTON, DC � The sales of existing homes dropped 27.2 percent in July, accelerating the recent decline in the already frail housing market. This brings the number of existing houses sold to an annual rate of only 3.83 million units, the lowest figure since 1999. The number of single-family home sales hit its lowest level since 1995. Some economists even fear that this signals the end of housing as an investment. How bad is this and what does it mean?

The Role of Expiring Tax Credits The Dow Jones Newswire's Meena Thiruvendagam and Sarah Lynch explain, "The steep decline in sales in July reflects both a souring in the U.S. economic recovery and the expiration of a government tax credit program that has been supporting the [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]housing [COLOR=#366388 !important]market[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] for more than a year. The [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]tax [COLOR=#366388 !important]credits[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] offered certain buyers up to $8,000 to sign a contract by April 30. Deals originally needed to close by June 30, but lawmakers pushed that deadline to Sept. 30. Still, the tax credit's expiration drove pending [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]home [COLOR=#366388 !important]sales[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] down 30% in May and caused a double-digit dive in mortgage application volumes even as interest rates hovered near their lowest levels in generations. July's existing home sales data reflects the May plunge in pending sales, which typically become existing sales within a couple of months."

Tax Credits Caused 'Collapse' The Atlantic's Megan McArdle writes of the homebuyer tax credits, "This housing collapse is the aftermath of that mania. The depth of the collapse suggests that in fact, the [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]housing [COLOR=#366388 !important]tax [/COLOR][COLOR=#366388 !important]credit[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] was not generating new demand as much as moving demand forward a few months. That means that we're going to have to work out the aftermath in months of low home sales. ... This only reinforces my belief that housing is no longer a good way to generate wealth. The government can't fix this market, which needs to find a new, lower level. It can only very temporarily distort it."

Market Fears Double Dip Housing Recession The Los Angeles Times' Alejandro Lazo reports, "The big drop, which was worse than what many analysts had expected, sent stock markets tumbling Tuesday morning as investors feared a double dip in housing. The blue-chip Dow Jones industrial average fell more than 1%, as did the S&P 500, a broader measure of stocks. ... The July plunge was the third consecutive monthly decline following the April 30 expiration of the tax credit, which offered up to $8,000 for certain buyers."

Ballooning Supply Worsens Problem The Atlantic's Daniel Indiviglio explains, "This is the second highest inventory in a year. The number of months it would take to sell the current supply of homes also swelled in July to 12.5, which was a huge jump compared to June's rate of 8.9. It's also nearly double November's rate of 6.5. Given the low rate of sales this summer and consistently high foreclosure rate, inventory will likely continue to grow. This is a really, really bad report. The awfulness of July's sales were a little exaggerated due to all of the demand having been pulled forward form the buyer credit. But it's unclear how many months of demand were captured early by the credit, so it's hard to know when its effect will wear off."

Entire Housing Market Is Stalled Reuters' Felix Salmon warns this report "means that despite [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]record-low [COLOR=#366388 !important]mortgage [/COLOR][COLOR=#366388 !important]rates[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR], people aren't able to buy houses: essentially all the benefit from those low rates is going to people who already own their homes and are taking the opportunity to refinance. The news also means that there's a big gap between buyers and sellers: the market isn't clearing. Sellers are convinced that their homes are worth lots of money, or will rise in price if they just hold out a bit longer; buyers are happily renting, waiting for prices to come down. And entrepreneurial types, whom one would expect to arbitrage the two by buying houses with super-cheap mortgages and renting them out at a profit, don't seem to have found those opportunities yet. Houses are rarely a liquid asset; they were, briefly, during the [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]housing [COLOR=#366388 !important]boom[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR], but now they're more illiquid than ever."

New York Post Article THE seeds of today�s financial meltdown lie in the Community Reinvestment Act � a law passed in 1977 and made riskier by unwise amendments and regulatory rulings in later decades. CRA was meant to encourage banks to make loans to high-risk borrowers, often minorities living in unstable neighborhoods. That has provided an opening to radical groups like ACORN (the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) to abuse the law by forcing banks to make hundreds of millions of dollars in �subprime� loans to often uncreditworthy poor and minority customers. Any bank that wants to expand or merge with another has to show it has complied with CRA � and approval can be held up by complaints filed by groups like ACORN. In fact, intimidation tactics, public charges of racism and threats to use CRA to block business expansion have enabled ACORN to extract hundreds of millions of dollars in loans and contributions from America�s financial institutions . The Woods Fund report makes it clear Obama was fully aware of the intimidation tactics used by ACORN�s Madeline Talbott in her pioneering efforts to force banks to suspend their usual credit standards. Yet he supported Talbott in every conceivable way. He trained her personal staff and other aspiring ACORN leaders, he consulted with her extensively, and he arranged a major boost in foundation funding for her efforts. And, as the leader of another charity, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Obama channeled more funding Talbott�s way � ostensibly for education projects but surely supportive of ACORN�s overall efforts.

CNS News Analysis Under the Clinton administration, federal regulators began using the act to combat �red-lining,� a practice by which banks loaned money to some communities but not to others, based on economic status. �No loan is exempt, no bank is immune,� warned then-Attorney General Janet Reno. �For those who thumb their nose at us, I promise vigorous enforcement.� The Clinton-Reno threat of �vigorous enforcement� pushed banks to make the now infamous loans that many blame for the current meltdown, Richman said. �Banks, in order to not get in trouble with the regulators, had to make loans to people who shouldn�t have been getting mortgage loans.� This threat combined with the government backing of Fannie and Freddie set the stage for the current uncertainty, because the �banks could just sell the loans off to Fannie or Freddie,� who could buy them with little regard for negative financial outcomes, Richman said.

Community Reinvestment Act

* The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), enacted by Congress in 1977 (12 U.S.C. 2901) and implemented by Regulations 12 CFR parts 25, 228, 345, and 563e, is intended to encourage depository institutions to help meet the credit needs of the communities in which they operate. In this section of the web site, you can find out more about the regulation and its interpretation and information on CRA examinations.

* The Community Reinvestment Act (or CRA, Pub.L. 95-128, title VIII, 91 Stat. 1147, 12 U.S.C. � 2901 et seq.) is aUnited States federal law that requires banks and thrifts to offer credit throughout their entire market area and prohibits them from targeting only wealthier neighborhoods with their services, a practice known as "redlining." The purpose of the CRA is to provide credit, including home ownership opportunities to underserved populations and commercial loans to small businesses. It has been subjected to important regulatory revisions.

* Clinton Administration Changes of 1995. In 1995, as a result of interest from PresidentBill Clinton's administration, the implementing regulations for the CRA were strengthened by focusing the financial regulators' attention on institutions' performance in helping to meet community credit needs. These revisions[1] with an effective starting date ofJanuary 31, 1995 were credited with substantially increasing the number and aggregate amount of loans to small businesses and to low- and moderate-income borrowers for home loans. These changes were very controversial and as a result, the regulators agreed to revisit the rule after it had been fully implemented for seven years. Thus in 2002, the regulators opened up the regulation for review and potential revision.[citation needed] Part of the increase in home loans was due to increased efficiency and the genesis of lenders, like Countrywide, that do not mitigate loan risk with savings deposits as do traditional banks using the new subprime authorization. This is known as the secondary market for mortgage loans. The revisions allowed the securitization of CRA loans containing subprime mortgages. The first public securitization of CRA loans started in 1997 by Bear Stearns. [2] The number of CRA mortgage loans increased by 39 percent between 1993 and 1998, while other loans increased by only 17 percent.

* George W. Bush Administration Proposed Changes of 2003 In 2003, the Bush Administration recommended what the NY Times called "the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago." This change was to move governmental supervision of two of the primary agents guaranteeing subprime loans, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac under a new agency created within the Department of the Treasury. However, it did not alter the implicit guarantee that Washington will bail the companies out if they run into financial difficulty; that perception enabled them to issue debt at significantly lower rates than their competitors. The changes were generally opposed along Party lines and eventually failed to happen.

* The Community Reinvestment Act is intended to encourage depository institutions to help meet the credit needs of the communities in which they operate, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods, consistent with safe and sound operations. It was enacted by the Congress in 1977 (12 U.S.C. 2901) and is implemented by Regulation BB (12 CFR 228). The regulation was substantially revised in May 1995, and was most recently amended in August 2005. Evaluation of CRA Performance
The CRA requires that each depository institution's record in helping meet the credit needs of its entire community be evaluated periodically. That record is taken into account in considering an institution's application for deposit facilities. Neither the CRA nor its implementing regulation gives specific criteria for rating the performance of depository institutions. Rather, the law indicates that the evaluation process should accommodate an institution's individual circumstances. Nor does the law require institutions to make high-risk loans that jeopardize their safety. To the contrary, the law makes it clear that an institution's CRA activities should be undertaken in a safe and sound manner. CRA examinations are conducted by the federal agencies that are responsible for supervising depository institutions. Information on this page is related to depository institutions that are examined by the Federal Reserve, mainly state-chartered banks that are members of the Federal Reserve. CRA information on other depository institutions is available from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), and the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS). Interagency information about the CRA is available from the Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council (FFIEC).
Background

The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) and the nation�s fair lending laws have leveraged a tremendous increase in affordable home lending for minority and low- and moderate-income communities. Our nation, however, has now reached a crossroads. After a dramatic surge earlier in the decade, increases in lending for underserved neighborhoods slowed down in the late 1990�s. At the same time, predatory lending threatens the progress in reinvestment by dispossessing homeowners of their wealth through foreclosures. CRA and the nation�s fair lending laws must be strengthened in order to enhance progress in revitalizing formerly redlined communities. Tougher enforcement of CRA and the fair lending laws, coupled with higher levels of public participation in the CRA process, has resulted in increases in lending above and beyond what the economic boom in the 1990�s by itself would have produced. In 1990, low- and moderate income borrowers received only 19 percent of all home mortgage loans made in this country. By 1999, their share had surged to 31 percent. From 1993 to 1999, low- and moderate-income borrowers enjoyed an 86 percent increase in the number of home purchase loans they received, while upper-income borrowers only received 51 percent more loans. The economic expansion alone cannot account for all of the increase in lending to underserved populations since lending increased faster for this segment of the population than for the overall population. Factors related to CRA and fair lending laws play an important part of the story. Starting with the former Bush Administration, the Department of Justice has settled lawsuits with more than a dozen lending institutions over violations of the CRA, the Fair Housing Act, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, and other fair lending and consumer protection laws. These settlements required the lending institutions to make millions of dollars in loans to compensate victims of discrimination and to implement new policies and programs to reach minority and lower income neighborhoods that had been redlined. Increased enforcement sent a strong reminder to the financial industry that they have an obligation to lend in a non-discriminatory manner to all the communities in which they are chartered and from which they take deposits. The Clinton Administration implemented reforms in CRA that enhanced the rigor of CRA exams by emphasizing results (measuring actual lending) and discarding process-oriented exams (e.g., looking at minutes of bank board meetings to see if board members were involved in bank CRA exam programs). Policymakers also enhanced the information disclosed under the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act (HMDA) and CRA to provide the general public and regulatory agencies with more detail on home and small business lending in underserved neighborhoods. Improved data disclosure led to enhanced accountability on the part of lending institutions, which, in turn, led to increases in lending to underserved neighborhoods. The CRA reforms empowered communities to become active in the CRA process. The National Community Reinvestment Coalition (NCRC) calculates that community organizations have negotiated about 370 CRA agreements with lending institutions that total more than $1 trillion dollars. CRA agreements are promises to make a specified number of loans and investments for low- and moderate-income communities over a certain number of years. By the late 1990�s, however, the dramatic spike in lending to underserved communities had slowed. The low- and moderate-income share of home mortgage loans increased 8 percentage points from 19 percent of all loans in 1990 to 27 percent in 1995. However, the loan share of these income groups increased only 4 percentage points from 27 percent of all loans in 1995 to 31 percent in 1999. Ironically, while some observers credit subprime lending with a surge in low- and moderate-income homeownership, the greatest gains in affordable homeownership opportunities occurred in the first half of the decade before the surge in subprime lending. When passing the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999, Congress "modernized" the financial industry by eliminating most of the remaining limitations on cross-industry mergers of banks, insurance companies and securities * firms. The statute will intensify lending activity by nontraditional lenders such as insurance agents that will be making home loans on behalf of newly affiliated depository institutions. Most of the non-traditional lending activity will remain outside of the purview of CRA since the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act does not apply CRA to the new lenders. Additionally, provisions were added to the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act that weaken existing CRA law and practice. Under the statute, small banks (under $250 million in assets) will undergo CRA exams once every four or five years instead of every two or three years. Residents of smaller towns and rural areas depend on small banks, which number more than 8,200 or 80 percent of the nation�s banks, for home loans and banking services. Reducing the frequency of CRA exams reduces the accountability of small banks for making loans in their community. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act also instituted the so-called CRA �sunshine� provision that mandates detailed disclosures of CRA agreements and other contracts concerning CRA made by community groups, banks, and other private sector entities. By imposing onerous reporting provisions, this provision may deter private sector contracts to make (and purchase) loans in lowand moderate-income communities. In a potential violation of the First Amendment, the sunshine disclosure requirements are triggered by certain CRA-related discussions among banks, community organizations, and federal banking agencies. Status The next administration must support H.R. 4893, the Community Reinvestment Modernization Act of 2000, that updates CRA to keep pace with the revolutionary changes in the financial industry. In addition, the next Administration must support provisions in H.R. 4893 that repeal the stretch-out of the small bank exams and the onerous sunshine disclosure requirements. In order to preserve the gains made possible by CRA, the next administration must also support anti-predatory lending legislation. Subprime loans are high interest rate loans to borrowers with blemished credit histories. A segment of the subprime lending industry is predatory, meaning that they make abusive loans that exploit borrowers and do not even consider the borrowers� ability to repay. Featuring terms such as stiff prepayment penalties, single premium credit insurance, and high balloon payments, predatory loans can often lead to foreclosure and dispossession of families� homes. Predatory lenders are out to take advantage of homeowners, heedless of the destabilizing effect on individual borrowers and neighborhoods. Representatives LaFalce and Schakowsky as well as Senators Schumer and Sarbanes have introduced anti-predatory legislation that limits fees and prohibits abusive terms and conditions. If the next Administration succeeds in convincing Congress to modernize CRA and pass anti-predatory legislation, our nation�s progress in revitalizing formerly redlined neighborhoods and expanding affordable housing opportunities will resume at a rapid pace. FDIC�s Community Affairs Program
In 1990, the FDIC established a Community Affairs Program that advances compliance with CRA and the fair lending laws by FDIC supervised institutions. The FDIC�s Division of Compliance and Consumer Affairs administers the program. Community Affairs Staff help to ensure equal access to credit, work with lenders and the public to revitalize communities and serve as intermediaries to further fair lending objectives.
How does the Community Reinvestment
Act and fair lending laws affect you?
� The Community Reinvestment Act is intended to encourage depository institutions to help meet the credit needs of the communities in which they operate, including low- and moderateincome neighborhoods, consistent with safe and sound banking operations. It was enacted by Congress in 1977, subsequently revised in 1995, and is implemented by FDIC regulations. In addition, the following fair lending laws and regulations were designed to ensure access to credit by all sectors of communities, to prohibit discrimination in lending, and to promote fair lending practices.
� The Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibits discrimination in any aspects of a consumer or commercial credit transaction based on color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, age, receipt of income from any public assistance program, or the exercise, in good faith, of any right under the Consumer Credit Protection Act.
� The Fair Housing Act prohibits discrimination based on race or color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, or handicap, in all aspects of residential real estate transactions, including, but not limited to: dwelling, purchase real estate loans, selling, brokering or appraising residential real estate; and selling or renting a dwelling.

Environmentalist's Have Been Found To Have Short Memories

spanner — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 03:34:52 GMT

New microbe discovered eating oil spill in Gulf

:doh:
What Does The Term, "Revealed Previously Unknown" Mean? Could It Be A New Species Discovered? or A Previously Known Microbe Rediscovered?
:Christmaspresents:
Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:32 am ET
WASHINGTON � The Gulf of Mexico oil spill has revealed a previously unknown type of [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]oil-eating [COLOR=#366388 !important]bacteria[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR], which is suddenly flourishing. Scientists discovered the new microbe while studying the underwater dispersion of millions of gallons of oil spilled into the Gulf following the explosion of BP's Deepwater Horizon drilling rig. And the microbe works without significantly depleting oxygen in the water, researchers led by Terry Hazen at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory reported Tuesday in the online journal Science Express. "Our findings, which provide the first data ever on microbial activity from a deepwater dispersed oil plume, suggest" a great potential for bacteria to help dispose of oil plumes in the deep-sea, Hazen said in a statement. Environmentalists have raised concerns about the [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]giant [COLOR=#366388 !important]oil [/COLOR][COLOR=#366388 !important]spill[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] and the underwater plume of dispersed oil, particularly its potential effects on sea life. A report just last week described a 22-mile long underwater mist of tiny oil droplets. "Our findings show that the influx of oil profoundly altered the microbial community by significantly stimulating deep-sea" cold temperature bacteria that are closely related to known petroleum-degrading microbes, Hazen reported. Before the spill the microbes in the deepest parts of the Gulf were not well known and there was little carbon present in the area of cool temperatures and high pressure. "We deployed on two ships to determine the physical, chemical and microbiological properties of the deepwater oil plume," Hazen said. "The oil escaping from the damaged wellhead represented an enormous carbon input to the [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]water [COLOR=#366388 !important]column[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]." Their findings are based on more than 200 samples collected from 17 deepwater sites between May 25 and June 2. They found that the dominant microbe in the oil plume is a new species, closely related to members of Oceanospirillales. This microbe thrives in cold water, with temperatures in the deep recorded at 5 degrees Celsius (41 Fahrenheit). Hazen suggested that the bacteria may have adapted over time due to periodic leaks and natural seeps of oil in the Gulf. Scientists also had been concerned that oil-eating activity by microbes would consume large amounts of oxygen in the water, creating a "dead zone" dangerous to other life. But the new study found that oxygen saturation outside the oil plume was 67 percent, while within the plume it was 59 percent. The research was supported by an existing grant with the [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Energy [COLOR=#366388 !important]Biosciences [/COLOR][COLOR=#366388 !important]Institute[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR], a partnership led by the University of California, Berkeley and the University of Illinois that is funded by a $500 million, 10-year grant from BP. Other support came from the U.S. Department of Energy and the University of Oklahoma Research Foundation.
Sciencexpress is the online edition of the journal Science.

:thumbs:
Article: Oil-Eating Microbes Tested on Spill;EPA Calls Results In Valdez `Promising'
Environmentalist's Have Been Found To Have Short Memories, Could Be Linked To The Environment of the Environmentalists - Article date: July 8, 1989 from The Washington Post
The Exxon Valdez Wreck off the Alaskan Coastline, Search for missing Captain of the Valdez ends when agents with the FBI find him at home, waiting for them - three days later - Shipmaster Joseph Jeffery Hazelwood found at home after extensive nationwide search for him, was waiting for the FBI.

Experiments with oil-eating microbes on a beach fouled by the Exxon Valdez oil spill have achieved "very promising" early results, raising the possibility of a biological solution to at least part of the massive cleanup of Alaska's Prince William Sound, federal environmental officials announced yesterday. Hoping to foster the development of naturally occurring microorganisms with an appetite for oil, scientists treated a section of soiled cobblestone beach with special nutrients. Within days, the test plot was visibly cleaner than surrounding areas. "It's potentially some good news for Prince William Sound," said Environmental Protection Agency Administrator William K.

:pipesmoker:
Microbes In Mud Flats Clean Up Oil Spill Chemicals

ScienceDaily (Apr. 5, 2009) � Micro-organisms occurring naturally in coastal mudflats have an essential role to play in cleaning up pollution by breaking down petrochemical residues. Research by Dr Efe Aganbi and colleagues from the University of Essex, presented at the Society for General Microbiology's meeting at Harrogate March 30, reveals essential differences in the speed of degradation of the chemicals depending on whether or not oxygen is present. In aerobic conditions (where oxygen is present), benzene, toluene and naphthalene, which all occur in petroleum, were rapidly degraded by microbes. In the absence of oxygen degradation was slower and only toluene was significantly broken down. This means that in a healthy marine ecosystem where the water is oxygenated, petrochemical contamination can biodegraded by micro-organisms, but if the oxygen supply is depleted by pollution and other processes leading to the breakdown of organic matter in the soil, the contamination will persist. While almost all known aromatic hydrocarbons (the petroleum breakdown products) are degraded with oxygen only a few can be completely broken down in the absence of oxygen. However, in a contaminated environment oxygen is quickly depleted and anaerobic breakdown (without oxygen) becomes an important mechanism for getting rid of contaminants The scientists also investigated the impact of the three chemicals on the make-up of different estuarine microbial communities. Over time the types of micro-organisms changed as the compounds were degraded. In aerobic conditions, benzene and toluene did not appear to affect community structure but naphthalene stimulated the growth of Cycloclasticus spirillensus, a bacterium known to break down oil residues. These bacteria might be used as a natural way of cleaning up pollution. "Our work shows that microbes are very versatile and can live on most types of chemicals" said Dr Aganbi, "More work is needed to identify bacteria in these mud sediments as little is known about the range of bacteria present. Estuaries are ideal locations for refineries and petrochemical facilities � it is essential that mudflats are preserved to provide a natural clean-up area for pollution."

:banghead:

UN board could rein in $2.7 billion carbon market
August 21, 2010
From the files of: Just Words - Just Speeches - Just Words
UNITED NATIONS � An obscure U.N. board that oversees a $2.7 billion market intended to cut [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]heat-trapping [COLOR=#366388 !important]gases[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] has agreed to take steps that could lead to it eventually reining in what European and U.S. environmentalists are calling a huge scam. At a meeting this week that ended Friday, the executive board of the U.N.'s Clean Development Mechanism said that five chemical plants in China would no longer qualify for funding as so-called carbon offset credits until the [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]environmentalists' [COLOR=#366388 !important]claims[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] can be further investigated. The "CDM" credits have been widely used in the carbon trading markets of the European Union, Japan and other nations that signed onto the 1997 Kyoto Protocol requiring mandatory cuts in greenhouse gases. Rather than cut their own carbon emissions, industrialized nations can buy the credits which then pay developing countries to cut their greenhouse gases instead. But environmentalists say rich nations could be wasting billions of dollars on what some are calling "perverse financial incentives," because some of the largest projects funded by the U.N.-managed CDM are a golden goose for chemical makers without making meaningful cuts in emissions. The CDM executive board, based in Bonn, Germany, has asked for a decades' worth of data on the gases from those five plants in China to study whether the system was manipulated. The controversy revolves around the apparent conflict between the [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Kyoto [COLOR=#366388 !important]climate [/COLOR][COLOR=#366388 !important]treaty[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] and another U.N. treaty, the 1987 Montreal Protocol for repairing the Earth's fragile ozone layer. The money from the CDM-authorized fund goes to pay the carbon offset credits claimed by more than 20 chemical makers mostly in China and India, but also in nations such as South Korea, Argentina and Mexico. The chemical makers are paid as much as $100,000 or more for every ton they destroy of a potent greenhouse gas, [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]HFC-23[/COLOR][/COLOR]. The price for destroying it is based on its being 11,700 times more powerful as a climate-warming gas than carbon dioxide. But that gas is a byproduct of an ozone-friendly refrigerant, HCFC-22, which those chemical makers also are paid to produce under the U.N.'s [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]ozone [COLOR=#366388 !important]treaty[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]. Environmentalists say there is so much money in getting rid of HFC-23 that the chemical makers are overproducing HCFC-22 to have more of the byproduct to destroy. "The evidence is overwhelming that manufacturers are creating excess HFC-23 simply to destroy it and earn carbon credits," said Mark Roberts of the [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Environmental [COLOR=#366388 !important]Investigation [/COLOR][COLOR=#366388 !important]Agency[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR], a research and advocacy group. "This is the biggest environmental scandal in history and makes an absolute mockery of international efforts to combat climate change. HCFC-22 is widely used in hair sprays, air conditioners and some refrigerators because it less damaging to the seasonal ozone hole over Antarctica than previous coolants. It has been promoted under the ozone treaty, often considered one of the world's most successful environmental treaties, as a replacement for chloroflourocarbons, or CFCs.

Interesting Information to explore for the real reason.

Fleetfoote — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:59:27 GMT

http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/ar...lobal-drug.htm

the bigger picture

Mr X — Sun, 08 Aug 2010 18:47:59 GMT

New > - Silencing Cheney Dissent � How BYU Obstructed 911 Justice
- NIST's Role in 9/11 Cover-up

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You are here: Patriot Saints > News > 911 > Conspiracy (Index)

911 Conspiracy
(Main Index)

Islamic terrorists are but pawns in a far more sinister plot that includes U.S.'s highest officials, who aim to establish global socialist police state.

"The major smoking gun here is the molten iron that was being dug out of the rubble over a month after the event. The only plausible scientific explanation for that is that Thermite was involved, residues of which were also found in the rubble and dust. Thermite is used in controlled demolitions -- planted ahead of time and controlled at the time of demolition -- and continues to react with the metal long after the event, hence the molten metal so long afterward. The reason the government is not addressing this issue is because they were in on the execution of this attack." -- Sterling D. Allan (Sept. 12, 2008)

New > Silencing Cheney Dissent � How the Mormon Church Obstructed 911 Justice - In 2006, the 911 Truth Movement singled out Vice President Dick Cheney as the first choice for being brought to justice for his treasonous acts in complicity with the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. That movement was silenced when LDS-owned BYU honored the traitor in their commencement exercises in 2007, along with removing the outspoken Steven E. Jones from BYU. (PatriotSaints; Feb. 7, 2010)

New > Conspiracy >
NIST's Role in 9/11 Cover-up - Established to be a pillar of scientific accuracy, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has prostituted itself in the case of its role in helping the dark elements of the U.S. Government to cover their tracks of culpability in the 9/11 tragedy. Compilation by Sterling D. Allan, son of NIST atomic clock physicist. (PS; Dec. 10, 2009)

New > Conspiracy / Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" >
Jesse Ventura's 9/11 Conspiracy Theory - This episode shows evidence that flight recorders were found in the wreckage, though the 911 Commission Report said no black boxes were found. Talks to witnesses of explosions. Reviews evidence that superthermite could have been safely painted on the beams by workers not knowing what they were doing. (PESWiki; Dec. 26, 2009)

Index > Bush' Complicit Role in 911 Attack

Recommended Website > PrisonPlanet.com/911.html
Recommended Book > The War on Freedom: How and Why America Was Attacked September 11, 2001

Mourning Glory
purchase prints, post cards, canvas

"Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up." (Book of Mormon; Ether 8:24)
We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.
-- David Rockefeller

* * * * * *

In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be guarded by a bodyguard of lies.
-- Winston Churchill

* * * * * *

To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists.
-- Attorney General John Ashcroft
defending his antiterror measures before the Senate Judiciary Committee
(He should be summarily released and sent to 1938 Germany)

* * * * * *

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
-- James Madison
while a United States Congressman

Indexes of Relevant Documentation:

U.S. Intelligence Deliberately Fibbed (Index)
Claim they were caught completely by surprise in the September 11 attack. Pearl Harbor reminiscent case of premeditated failure.

Air Force Could Have Repelled the Tragedy But Didn't (Index)
Held back U.S. self-defense capabilities.
Patriot Saints Exclusive
U.S. Could Have, Should Have Deployed Countermeasures -- Chronology, Intelligence and Common Sense - late and ineffective scrambling designed to convey image of valiant attempt. (Sept. 28, 2001)

Tower Collapse Not Plausible from Crash Alone (Index)
Heat from jet fuel fire alone would not cause towers to crumble. Uniform collapse implies supplemental demolition charges and shadow government complicity.
700 architects and engineers calling for new 911 building collapse investigation (video) - Richard Gage, who specializes in steel-frame, fireproof buildings, acts as spokesman for a body of Engineers who are questioning the official explanation for the collapse of the three towers in New York on 911, citing the controlled demolition behavior of the collapse as well as discovery of demolition-consistent materials in the dust. Dark insider ramifications. (KMPH, Fox 26; Fresno; posted on YouTube; May 28, 2009) (Want to Know)

Major General Albert "Bert" N. Stubblebine III, head of all intelligence says: the Pentagon was NOT hit by a plane; WTC 7 was brought down by explosives in demolition manner, similar to towers 1&2; the media in America is controlled.
BYU professor says bombs, not planes, toppled WTC (Deseret News; Nov. 10, 2005)
Steven Jones Lecture - 2-hour lecture given Feb. 1, 2006. (Google Video)

BYU Physics Prof Finds Thermate in WTC Physical Samples - Based on chemical analysis of WTC structural steel residue, a Brigham Young University physics professor has identified the material as thermate, which is the controlled demolition explosive thermite plus sulfur. Sulfur cases the thermite to burn hotter, cutting steel quickly. (Portland Independent Media Center; June 17, 2006)

Terrorists Who Profit from Western Aid (Index)
U.S. and Western Role in Building and Supporting Terrorist Networks

I Would Be Mad Too! (Index)
How U.S. and Western Presence and Policies Have Deliberately Enraged the Muslim World

Rumors of Wars (Index)
Preparations for this War were already underway prior to Sept. 11, 2001. Now that they have their war, they are milking it to the hilt.

Miscellaneous (Index)
General conspiracy overviews, ramifications.

Why would they do all of this?

Who Benefits? (Index)
What U.S. insiders and others in the NWO cabal stand to gain.

. . . and finally . . . the punch-line . . .

Civil Rights Casualties (Index)
Using the "Terrorist Enemy No. 1" Spectacle to Rush Police State

Vilifying the Right (Index)
Turning on the True Patriots for the Sake of World Socialist Government.
Overviews

Sheen Requests Twenty Minutes with the President about 9/11 - Actor and director, Charlie Sheen, has composed an interview with President Obama regarding the facts behind the Sept. 11 attack, inasmuch as six of the ten 9/11 Commissioners now doubt the veracity of the official government story. Cites 20 briefings of crucial evidence that needs to be addressed. (PESN; Sept. 8, 2009) (Comment)

9/11 Seven Years Later -- APFN - An index page of articles compiled by the American Patriot Friend's Network (APFN) for 9/11/08.
See also (at Sister Site: GreaterThings.com)

Prophecies Regarding 911 - Codes Analysis � Flee Babylon � Visions, Dreams � Nostradamus � Direct Prophecies � This Day in History � What's Next? � Prophetic Images � Unintended Prophecy

Ramifications of 911 - Toward a Christian Response � Shocking News Behind 911 � Political Polemic � We Deserve What We Got � The Other Side � The Lighter Side � See also � Related Sites

And from the Left

Noam Chomsky's 911 Blames U.S. Capitalist Agression for 9-11 - Reasons worth consideration, though premises are sometimes rooted in the socialist model, which abscond freedom.
In all Fairness

Moore's Fahrenheit 911 is fraught with lies - Moore knowingly uses some information to support his view, which in context does not lend such support. At least 50 such violations of truth in the movie.
Summary/Preview Articles

There were NO Arab "hijackers" on the planes (June 5, 2002)
Air Traffic Control Recording of 9/11 Flight 93

Movies

Loose Change - Documentary
Sever Visibility - United States Army Major Stanley Kruter (Paul Cross) is forced to face the demons of his past when he discovers compelling information contradicting the American government's official version that a commercial 757 jet airliner crashed into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. Major Kruter's discovery ignites an inner struggle between moral indignation and patriotism catapulting him into a labyrinth of intrigue, madness and suspense, ultimately setting him on a collision course with his destiny in which he will find no return.
Recommended Websites (Special Thanks)

st911.org - Scholars for 9/11 truth
ae911truth.org - Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth
WhatReallyHappened.com

BombsInsideWTC.dk - documents evidence that the collapse of the towers was a result of bombs placed inside the tower before the plane crashes.
GlobalResearch.ca - 9/11 key articles
FromTheWilderness: September 11th and The New World We Live In
Was 9/11 Allowed to Happen? - Two-page Summary of 9/11 Timeline Summary by Paul Thompson
911-strike.com
Petition to the Senate to Investigate Oddities Involving 9/11 Terrorist Attacks
Collapse of Towers by Demolition
Ground Zero Forum
911timeline.net
The Truth About 9/11
Pentagon surveillance cctv 2001/9/11 : here is the fraud!
Emperors-Clothes.com
Flight93crash.com
American Patriot Friends Network
WorldNetDaily.com
NewsWithViews.com
Mesothelioma.com - one of the web�s leading asbestos-disease resources. On and after September 11, thousands of people in the lower Manhattan area were directly exposed to the toxic cloud created by the collapse of the towers - which contained an estimated 400 tons of asbestos. More and more people are reporting illnesses every day. Due to the latency period of asbestos related illnesses, many of those affected by asbestos are just being diagnosed. Asbestos is the one of the only known causes of mesothelioma, a rare but deadly form of cancer that affects the lung

http://www.patriotsaints.com/News/91...acy/index.html

Whatcha' Do Today DrEd - SOS Different Day

EdWardMD — Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:18:07 GMT

VZ has knowledge on many subjects, is eager and open for new areas
09:23 EdWardMDif he had, he'd already know it's a slam dunk on nukes - which is a slam dunk on this government of traitors, tyrants and murderers
:24 dutchtreatoho. can you prove that ?

09:25 EdWardMDprove what?
:26 dutchtreatyour own statement just now

09:26 EdWardMDanother person commenting and hasn't even read my stuff with more than 300 referenced data points

09:27 EdWardMDif he had, he'd already know it's a slam dunk on nukes - which is a slam dunk on this government of traitors, tyrants and murderers

09:27 dutchtreatdid you check that with VZ and why VZ has not read your stuff ?

09:27 EdWardMDCAN AND HAVE AS WELL AS OUTED A MULTITUDE OF COVERT OPS

09:28 EdWardMDnot up to me what vz does, just note when comments are made when 'they' haven't even read it.

09:28 dutchtreati rest my case

09:29 EdWardMDaccording to BD and JF im the foremost expert on WTC evidence in total

09:29 EdWardMDrest your case? what case is that?

09:30 EdWardMDsupposedly he doesn't understand it, yet any high school student can understand it.

09:31 EdWardMDand he has no specific questions regarding the information in the article

09:31 EdWardMDjust has the questions he has to ask that are unrelated to the proven evidence.

09:31 EdWardMDthese are all covert op text book responses

09:32 EdWardMDnot saying he is, but, for a researcher, it's strange to me...

09:34 EdWardMDa researcher usually deals with the referenced data inside the article - ALL ELSE IS EITHER STUPIDITY OR COVERT OPS, not a researcher.

09:39 EdWardMDand the above ain't NO F!CKING OPINION - it'
09:40 EdWardMDs A FACT JACK.

09:42 EdWardMD(edit above) "EITHER STUPIDITY, COVERT OPS, OR STRAIGH OUT ZIONISM"

09:49 Rings of SaturnSerenity now...

09:50 EdWardMDlol, f!ck 'serenity now', i want trials for treason, murder and crimes against humanity from the shrub to obama and ever unconstitutional fascist us 'representative'

09:51 EdWardMDand everyone of the accessories after the fact to pay their dues too

09:53 EdWardMDThe 'Traces Of Tritium' WTC 9-11 Lie Is Obstruction Of Justice By Accessories To Murder

09:54 EdWardMDhttp://www.rense.com/general85/911.htm

09:55 EdWardMDwhen 20 is normal, how does 1,092 = traces?

09:56 EdWardMDbeyond ZV comprehension?

09:59 EdWardMD3,000/3 = in your head instant recognition just a shift of 3 decimal points to muon physicists.

10:00 EdWardMD1,000 TUS = "INCREASE IN THE ORDER OF SEVERAL MAGNITUDES" S. (Scumbag) Jones

10:04 EdWardMD"Traces" S. (Scumbag) Jones

US Zionism Origin:

EdWardMD — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:30:12 GMT

Proofs of a Conspiracy against all Nations/Religions - Published in 1793 as the Zionist cults were forming here in US.

http://www.bilderberg.org/lucis.htm

Collected from Good Authorities by John Robison, A.M. Professor of Natural Philosophy, and Secretary to the Royal Society of Edinburgh. Fourth edition 1798. [out of copyright - reproduce at will]

This is likely to be as interesting to freemasons as to those non-masons intrigued by what might go on behind the lodge door. Certainly the twenty-first century attempt to turn everyone away from politics and Jesus Christ's message of peace has been mightily successful. This tract looks at the eighteenth century origins of this ambitious project. The idea was and is to make democratic government, through masonic infiltration, so unworkable as to be rejected by the people. In exchange we get a global state apparatus run by private banks, global media barons, security and telecommunications companies. (see Weishaupt biographical notes)

Not least because of the masonic blood-oaths, freemasonry is absolutely NOT compatible with Christianity. The uninspiring lead given by today's mason-embracing Church of England and Opus Dei influenced Catholic church should make us, and them, turn to the opening chapters of Revelation which spell out how established church institutions are going astray, with unbelieving clergy doing their worst in exchange for a roof over their head and leading the flock over the cliff. Which is where the man-made religion comes in.

The exasperating mess the British church and democracy are in begins to make sense, and further light is shed on Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II's "powers at work in this country about which we have no knowledge"[Paul Burrell]. Maybe you haven't seen the latest addition to the Bilderberg website ma'am? [TG]

The Complete Book - http://www.sacred-texts.com/sro/pc/index.htm

"The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment; let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always covered by another name, and another occupation. None is better than the three lower degrees of Free Masonry; the public is accustomed to it, expects little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it. Next to this, the form of a learned or literary society is best suited to our purpose, and had Free Masonry not existed, this cover would have been employed; and it may be much more than a cover, it may be a powerful engine in our hands. By establishing reading societies, and subscription libraries, and taking these under our direction, and supplying them through our labours, we may turn the public mind which way we will." - Adam Weishaupt, founder of the Illuminati in John Robison's Proofs of a Conspiracy, 1793.

Proofs of a Conspiracy by John Robison as a Word Document for printing - 134 pages

See also - http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/illuminati.html

Animals Died in the Garden of Eden - Dr. Hugh Ross

spanner — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:46:42 GMT

body,html { overflow-y: hidden; overflow-x: hidden;} body,html { overflow-y: hidden; overflow-x: hidden;}From Dr. Hugh Ross, Reasons to Believe
http://www.reasons.org/resources/non-staff-papers/animal-death-before-the-fall

Animal Death Before the Fall: What Does the Bible Say?

Did animals experience death before the Fall, that is, before Adam and Eve transgressed the creation covenant by eating the forbidden fruit? As one whose training lies in the area of biblical interpretation and theology, I am not qualified to speak on the scientific aspects of this question - although I will state at the outset that I find the empirical evidence for an old earth and universe to be compelling, if not incontrovertible. And I believe that this evidence is consistent with a firm commitment to the authoritative, inspired, and inerrant Word of God. I do not believe that macroevolution, in particular an evolutionary understanding of the origin of man, is as strongly supported by science, and I do not find it to be consistent with the teaching of Scripture. However, I see no compelling biblical reason to deny the reality of microevolution, as long as it is understood within the context of God's providential control. Supernatural creation of the various kinds [1] must be posited throughout the creation era, a fact that is attested both in the Genesis account and in the book of nature (i.e., the repeated appearance of new kinds in the fossil record). Once the kinds have been created by divine fiat, however, there is room for evolutionary processes, including the production of many distinct new species within the kinds. Thus I would be comfortable with the label "old earth, progressive creationist," although I hold to the framework interpretation of the days of Genesis rather than the more widely known day-age view. [2] If the above sketch is anywhere near to the actual historical truth, it implies that plants and animals died before the Fall. According to the fossil record nature was "red in tooth and claw." In view of the vast ages between the first evidence of life and the appearance of man, this description would necessarily be true prior to the Fall. But this conception of the pre-Fall state presents a jarring contrast with the typical Sunday School picture of Adam and Eve in the garden, dwelling peacefully in an idyllic state, where all the animals were herbivores and the wolf was dwelling with the lamb. Appealing to the biblical doctrine of the Fall and the subsequent curse, many young earth creationists have argued that the Fall of man was the event that introduced biological death into creation. Prior to Adam's sin, they argue, there was no death in the human or animal realms, and no predatory behavior among the animals. Four biblical texts are commonly quoted in support of this view. We will examine each in turn, followed by a brief look at two passages that support the thesis that animals did die before the Fall.
(2) Romans 8:18-21

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. Another common argument against pre-Fall animal death is the statement of Paul that the creation was subjected to "futility" as a result of the curse pronounced upon creation after the Fall (Gen. 3:16-19). The current experience of animals preying on one another and experiencing pain, suffering, and death, it is argued, is part of the curse. Some have even gone so far as to argue that the second law of thermodynamics (entropy) was set in motion via the curse upon creation. All of this is read into Paul's reference to creation's "futility" and "corruption" in this passage. Unlike Romans 5:12, it is clear that Paul is referring to the non-human realm of creation. One thing that supports this reading is that instead of the more general term kosmos, he uses the specific term ktisis ("creation"). Furthermore, the passage distinguishes between the corruption to which the creation has been subjected from the corruption that the children of God experience as they deal with suffering in the present age. Both will be set free from corruption at the end of the age, or more precisely, when the children of God receive the redemption of their bodies at glorification (verses 23, 30). Meredith G. Kline has argued that the corruption to which the creation is enslaved, and from which it is "eagerly longing" to be delivered, is the earth's present service as the mass "graveyard" of dead human beings. [3] Kline suggests that Paul has in mind an important passage in Isaiah 24-26 which presents this picture of the earth as a graveyard, as the context for an apocalyptic vision of the future resurrection of the dead. Here are the main selections: Isaiah 24:4 The earth mourns and withers, the world fades and withers, the exalted of the people of the earth fade away. 5 The earth is also polluted by its inhabitants, for they transgressed laws, violated statutes, broke the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore, a curse devours the earth, and those who live in it are held guilty. Therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men are left� 26:19 Your dead will live; their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, for your dew is as the dew of the dawn, and the earth will give birth to the departed spirits � 21 For behold, the LORD is about to come out from His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; and the earth will reveal her bloodshed and will no longer cover her slain. Paul's vivid metaphor of the creation's groaning as it waits expectantly for the resurrection of the righteous seems to have been drawn from this passage. Isaiah says that "the earth mourns," because it has been made to "cover her slain." This then sets the stage for Isaiah's prophecy of the resurrection of the dead. Indeed, it is precisely the resurrection of the dead that will be the deliverance of creation from its conscripted service as the graveyard of humanity. The creation will then become the renewed dwelling place of the glorified saints.

(3) Genesis 1:29-30; 9:1-4

1:29 Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food. 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. 3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. 4 Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood." Before the Fall, God gave the vegetation to Adam and the beasts of the earth for food. After the flood, it would seem that God lifted the restriction on meat, and gave "every moving thing" for food, just as he had given the green plant. Young earth creationists therefore argue that prior to the Fall, man and beast alike were herbivores. But Genesis 1:29-30 does not explicitly say that meat was forbidden. It only says the positive: God gave man and beast "every green plant for food." Kline suggests that this passage has a special literary purpose. [4] It was not given to define man's diet comprehensively, but to set the stage for the prohibition of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the following chapter (Gen. 2:16-17). Furthermore, it is clear that God entrusted man with lordship over all the realms of creation, not just the plant kingdom. Man is to rule over the fish, birds, cattle, and every thing creeps on the earth (Gen. 1:26, 28). This rulership over the sub-human realms of creation is defined in the most general terms ("rule over � subdue"), suggesting not merely the use of certain domesticated animals for labor, but the also the use of milk, eggs, wool, animal skins, and so on. "You make him to rule over the works of your hands; you have put all things under his feet, all sheep and oxen, and also the beasts of the field" (Psalm 8:6-7). The post-flood account in Genesis 9:1-4 is best explained as a re-issuing of the same general lordship over creation that was given to Adam prior to the Fall. Notice that the command to "be fruitful and multiply" is identical with that given to Adam (Gen. 1:26). The fact that the mandate given to Noah, who is here pictured as a second inaugurator of the human race, includes the giving of all creatures for food, not just plants, suggests that the same mandate was given to Adam before the Fall. It is doubtful that the permission to eat meat recorded in Genesis 9:3 must be interpreted as the first time that God authorized such a diet, since it would appear that animals had been killed at least for sacrificial purposes as early as Genesis 3:21 (the divine provision of animal skins for Adam and Eve) and 4:4 (the sacrifice of Abel). Kline argues that "what Genesis 9:3 actually authorized was the eating of all kinds of meats, thus removing the prohibition against the eating of unclean animals that had been instituted for Noah's family within the special symbolic situation in the ark-kingdom." [5]

(4) Isaiah 11:6-9; 65:25

11:6 And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little boy will lead them. 7 Also the cow and the bear will graze, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9 They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. 65:25 The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent's food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain. In Isaiah's prophetic description of the eschatological state, carnivores are going to be supernaturally transformed into herbivores. Young earth creationists argue that, therefore, pre-Fall state was equally idyllic and free from carnivorous activity. However, it is incorrect theologically to assume that the eschatological state will be merely a return to the pre-Fall conditions of paradise. The pre-Fall covenant of works that God made with Adam included an offer of eschatological advancement to a state of higher glory than he had as originally created. One of the distinctive theological contributions of Reformed theology, according to Geerhardus Vos, is that "what we inherit in the second Adam is not restricted to what we lost in the first Adam: it is much rather the full realization of what the first Adam would have achieved for us had he remained unfallen and been confirmed in his state." [6] This can be seen in the Reformed doctrine of the fourfold state of man:

the state of innocence, which could be forfeited
the state of sin and condemnation in Adam
the state of grace
the state of glory

The third state cannot be forfeited, since it secured by Christ as the second Adam, whose obedience unto death fulfilled the meritorious condition of the eternal covenant of works with the Father. If the third state (of grace) is an advance upon he first, how much more is the fourth state an eschatological advancement far beyond the first! Man's very body will be glorified in the fourth state, something that Adam could have achieved had he kept the covenant of works, but not something that he possessed as he was created in the state of innocence. It is theologically incorrect, therefore, to argue from the fourth to the first state. We should not be surprised if we find that the creatures that inhabit the new heavens and the new earth enjoy a different mode of existence than they did as they were created, for the same is true of the highest creature of all - man himself. Having examined the passages frequently used by young earth creationists to deny pre-Fall animal death, there are two passages which positively teach that carnivorous activity is not a result of sin, but part of God's good provision of his creation from the beginning.
(5) Psalm 104:19-28

19 He made the moon for the seasons; the sun knows the place of its setting. 20 You appoint darkness and it becomes night, in which all the beasts of the forest prowl about. 21 The young lions roar after their prey and seek their food from God. 22 When the sun rises they withdraw and lie down in their dens. 23 Man goes forth to his work and to his labor until evening. 24 O LORD, how many are Your works! In wisdom You have made them all; the earth is full of Your possessions � 27 They all wait for You to give them their food in due season. 28 You give to them, they gather it up; You open Your hand, they are satisfied with good. Psalm 104 is one of a handful of creation texts scattered throughout the Old Testament that supplement and reflect poetically upon the Genesis 1-2 account. In the context of describing the divine work of creation, we are given an insight into the nature of God's goodness and care of his creation. Commenting on the fourth day of creation, Psalm 104:19ff describes the divine establishment of the sun and the moon to govern the seasons. This poetic meditation then goes beyond the Genesis account and explains that God appointed the day-night cycle so that the beasts of the forest might prowl about at night and hunt for their prey. After a successful night of hunting, when the sun rises the next morning, the lions withdraw and lie down in their dens. This timing is perfect, for when the carnivorous hunting beasts are asleep during the daytime, man can go about his daytime labors in safety until evening. Notice that the lions "seek their food from God," and that God gives them "their food in due season," opening his hand to "satisfy them with good." In an earlier treatment of this subject I wrote: "Such provision is a testament to the goodness of the Creator in caring for His creation � There is no suggestion in this text that we are to view the provision of prey for carnivorous beasts as anything but a blessing from the hand of a good Creator. It is certainly not pictured as an abnormality resulting from the entrance of sin into the world." [7]

(6) 1 Timothy 4:1-5

1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer. In this passage, Paul is warning Timothy against the Jewish legalists who wanted to impose the dietary restrictions of the Mosaic Law upon the Gentiles, in addition to a number of man-made rules like celibacy. Such ascetic principles, which Paul refers to as "bodily discipline" (verse 8), may have had the appearance of godliness, but in reality they were the "doctrines of demons." Why? Because such prohibitions involve an attitude of rejecting something that the Creator himself made for our enjoyment. Just as Paul appeals to the creation order to justify the goodness of marriage, so he appeals to creation to justify the eating of all foods, "for every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude." If marriage was a pre-Fall ordinance given to man in his innocence and, on that ground, is not to be rejected, there must also have been a divine permission before the Fall to partake of "every creature of God."

Animal and Death - A Response
July 21, 2010
Dr. Ross,
I appreciate your ministry as you go to the Nth degree in trying to tag what the Bible is stating, I hope you receive this in the spirit of love and for the truth. Thank you for reading this.

I was reading your, "Animal Death Before the Fall: What Does the Bible Say?" and was struck by the view. I cannot hold the view that there was death before the fall, for the same reason that you gave in, "They must assume that "death" (Greek: thanatos) means the cessation of biological life" but in a different area. I agree that cessation of biological life is death, and I cannot word this as fluently and eloquent as you do, so I hope you can bear with me, as I found your article intriguing. In James, he states that the definition for "Time" is in the process of sight, lust, sin, and death, much like that of the tomato plant that it reaches forth from the ground as day 1 and falls down to the ground as day 45 so that the age of the plant is 45 days. As I understand it, in the Garden there was no evil, with the exception of one place, and that it was confined to a tree or position that could not be moved, the Serpent did not have the luxury of searching through the Garden as he does today. Consider the verse in l Corinthians 15:56 "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law" a law was not introduced until God told Adam to eat of all the trees bar one, so if there was not sin in the Garden until Adam sinned then by definition there would be no death and the meat they ate of was written in Genesis 1:29-30, "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so" making the seed or herbs for their meat.

In Genesis 1:28 we are given a clue for the purpose of the verse in Romans 5:14,
"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come", Adam's sin was rebellion as he did not obey what God had told him, whether he acted out of love for Eve in a sacrificial act or not, he was still in disobedience, but the verse implies that death reigned over them that had "not" sinned after the "similitude" of Adam's transgression, so who could these be, if they had "not" the similar sin as that of Adam? God gave instructions and command unto Adam, "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" Genesis 1:28 - the timeframe is shown in Genesis 2:19-20, "And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him" so Adam was to name all that was in the Garden, which, even in today's technology would take a lot of time. A mute command is how some look at the command God gave unto Eve, "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee" (Genesis 3:16) how would Eve know that God had "greatly multiplied" her sorrow and conception if she had never had prior experience in birth, she would not understand "multiplied" much less "greatly multiplied"? Eve had made the mistake also of thinking that Cain came from the LORD, "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD" Genesis 4:1, Cain had evil in him from birth, and the fruit that she consumed by the Serpent was not like that of an apple, etc.., but the "fruit" of sin is anger, rebellion, lust, murder etc.., and Cain killed his brother, showing what manner of fruit he had in his life. These in Romans 5:14 (above) would not be in the geneological listing as they had no record of birth, as they were born under a system of no time, as time was not in the Garden, for there was no law or sin, and no mention of the day they were born, unlike Adam and Eve whom God stated the day of their Creation. For this reason they had not the same sin as did Adam/Eve, but because Adam's sin fell upon all the Creation (earth) as in Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" these had sin cast upon them, much like that of Christ on the cross who bare our sins, but had not sin Himself.

The manner by which the Serpent infected the first child born of Eve, that being Cain, is much like that found in Genesis 6:1-2 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." I would think that the "spirit" part of Cain came through the Serpent, but the flesh part of Cain, came through Adam, the "reverse?" of what happened with Mary and the birth of Christ as the flesh part came by Mary, but the Spirit part by the Holy Spirit in Matthew 1:20-21, "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins". The angel called His name Jesus, the same occurred with Elijah being renamed as John. "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb" in Luke 2:21 and Luke 1:13, "But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John" and this was accomplished so that the old testament prophet would anoint the new testament, Messiah as required by God, fulfilling the prophecy found in Malachi 4:5-6 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse" it was indeed a great day for the world as salvation came to man, but a dreadful day for those that would reject the Messiah, the earth was not cursed with destruction, but was blessed with grace and mercy. Christ also confirmed Elijah twice, once in Matthew 11:13-15 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." and once in, " And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist." Matthew 17:10-13, the disciples understood and I am consistently amazed how Christians today, do not understand that which the disciples clearly understood, but Christians believe that two spirits resided in John, the spirit of Elijah and that of John, their reasoning - they claim it would be re-incarnation, but Elijah never died in the old testament. Most believe that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses in Revelation 11, but if he is then we have all been duped for the one coming after the two witnesses is the man of sin, in direct violation of Malachi 4 above. However, that would equal three witnesses, as a witness must witness something to be called a witness, Moses witnessed the LAW system of God and John the Beloved witnessed the GRACE of God as shown in John 21:20-24, "Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true." John is called to be one of the two witnesses in Revelation 10:9-11, "And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings." John is to be the witness of Grace and has yet to perform such, I don't understand why Christians reject the plain written truth in the Bible, do you? Now, my question is in view of this, do you think I have misinterpreted the Bible on these subject matters, and if so how?

spanner 7212010 :nuked:

I loved my paddy like a daddy, but he betrayed me like a betrayer. circa 2006
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