I was thinking the same thing dfrank. But lets leave it alone as the threads title is; A word of caution regarding Jesuit exposès

And everyone here is being respectful and having a rather enlightening debate. Jesuits are nothing but warmed over Egyptians and Babylonians. "Enlightened ones" if you will. Different name, same agenda. They change names frequently through history, but are the keepers of the "Mystery Religion of Babylon & Egypt" so it is kind of in the ballpark.

Sure it's off topic, but this thread was short lived as he was making this thread to make a point and ask for caution. With the new forums we will be actually able to split threads and avoid this kind of stuff by simply creating two new hybrid threads from the one. So lets just see where this leads. Everyone in the discussion thus far is doing a remarkable job of self moderating, considering the subject matter. Lets see where it takes us.

cheers-
phil

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"In disquisitions of every kind there are certain primary truths, or first principles, upon which all subsequent reasoning must depend." --Alexander Hamilton

Frank,
Yeah,I see what you mean. BUT, maybe it's not so far removed!

Cmar has expressed a very widely held belief that ties directly to the Vatican. That the Catholic Church created the New testament out of whole cloth, in order to create a new controlling religion. (as if the world needed another one! )

So, to many people, the jump in logic from this to the Vatican controlling the secret societies that control the world is a very short leap, indeed!

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A LIE BELIEVED BY EVERYBODY IS NOT THE TRUTH

Sounds grand, appreciate the feedback.


Peace-

Dfrank over and out

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"My people die because of lack of knowledge." Hosea 4:6

It was just a thought,Frank.

As to the origins of this thread, it's pretty loony to crucify everyone who can't see the truth of the matter. Some people willnever see it, as the Jesuits/Vatican seldom directly applies influence.

(I may be wrong about this, too, there's no way to really know. But there is enough info to understand how the Jesuits achieve most of their goals.)

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A LIE BELIEVED BY EVERYBODY IS NOT THE TRUTH

I saw dfrankl4's comments earlier, hence waited to see the outcome before replying.

To drankl4 first. I look forward to your reply to my above post to you.

To trueblue.

trueblue wrote:My vocation is psychology and sorry to burst your bubble, but psychology is no more a religion than bricklaying is. Psychology is quite simply the study of the brain, conscious and subconscious mind, and how it works. It is not a life 'choice run by belief on ONLY x to determine a purely self-serving salvation vs hellfire for eternity if you don't "choose" the prior. It is just a job.

Too, I have yet to see buildings dedicated purely for the worship of Freud, Jung, Hogg, Kassorla ..et al, where fellow psychologists and/or psychiatrists congregate weekly to discuss and "praise" (for example) Freuds Oedipus Complex.

The irony is though, IF there were such buildings, at least we psycologists and psychiatrists would actually HAVE something from the ACTUAL 'author" to work with, rather than mere hereay accounts....if that

trueblue wrote:Actually my comments came from my remembering when I was a counsellor in the church I was involved in and what we were taught in seminars to focus on and deal with as to "new converts", and how to nab them, so that particular observation has NIL to do with my post church psychology degree. When I was in the church though, your comments as to how you were, would have made you a prime candidate and frankly would have been an easy mark, Trueblue.

trueblue wrote:No need to get defensive here, trueblue. it IS ok and as I said before, whatever floats your own boat is ok with me, just don't expect me to get on board with an oar, however you obviously changed your mindset as to go from myth to "knowledge", hence belief in now, rather than mere myth. You did, by your own words change "how you saw" things, hence looking for a specific (for you) something better. IF as you claim you were happy with what you had, in your "full of self" narcissistic state, then you would not have sought any further "knowledge". You really should deal with your self denial Trueblue.

What "pieces of the puzzle" have you clamed to have found in your "knowledge" and please, if available on the net as to this change from fiction to 'fact', cite the sources. If it is not available on the net, I am happy to sus out any library in Australia To source your claimed epiphany as to god/jesus - NT (specifically for you I see) as being TRUTH. I truly look forward to your evidences, so again, whether net available or not, at least cite the reference points, as in authors names, congregations or establishments these knowledge "bases" derive for you to achieve your personal "truth find".



trueblue wrote:I never stated that everyone who believes in the bible needs a crutch, which is more than evident by my previous posts and I even gave examples of differences. Again, see my first couple of points on this reply, which shows that psychology is not and cannot really be construed as a religion. (yes I know the Bobgans claim it but their analysis is pathetically contrite)perhaps now you may want to tackle the other points I mentioned in the post you clipped this paragraph only from?

I look forward to it, as well as your links to affirm your own position as to the reply, but I also look forward to your replies as to my post dated osted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:45 am.

Thank you, Trueblue.:0D

why do I get the feeling I'm being talked down to?

This discussion HAS reached the point where it belongs in a debate forum.

For someone trained in psychology, Cmar has an extremely narrow definition of religion.
If you really wish to get into it, Cmar, I will be more than happy to take you on, but in a forum where everyone can learn from the exchange.

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A LIE BELIEVED BY EVERYBODY IS NOT THE TRUTH

I can empathize with you TB. I went a few posts with Cmar and didn't really see how it would profit either of us to engage in a debate. Thus I stopped discussing it.

And Cmar--

No disrespect, but you believe what you do, and we believe what we do, and to engage in debate with you, at least in my own opinion would be to get aboard a never ending and spinning merry go round, and all we would do is waste each others time, as I cannot possibly see anything positive coming from such a "debate." You are far more condescending to others than you think yourself to be. Which is also one of the reasons why I forgo getting into any of these discussions with you. And I mean no disrespect to you. Seriously, none at all. The way I look at it is thats your deal, and what I choose to believe is my deal. And we have both made our choices. The reason for this is central to my Faith. I do not bible bash. I do not try and force any of my beliefs down anyones throat. Rather I try to "persuade" those who I believe welcome my opinions, belief and knowledge on the subject. And it is with these people that I freely share and enter into discussion with or a debate of the finer and smaller points.

And one more thing. Christianity isn't a religion. It is a Faith. It has no Laws, Statutes, Ordinances, outward observances required to be followed. Religions do. And thats the huge difference between a "Faith" and a "Religion."

There is well over 1000 recognized "sects" of "Christianity." And nearly all of these resemble very little the teachings of the Bible, if any at all. Thus in my own opinion, they are not Christianity at all. But this doesn't make the bible any less true, or its prophecies of no effect, or untrue...

But each of us are free to choose what we believe and also free to either engage, as we wish, in discussion of it, or not. For myself, when I see that the possibility of persuading someone else of what I know to be the truth will be fruitless, I disengage discussion on the subject and simply stop my efforts. Just my own view and opinions on the subject...

Cheers-
phil

Also, I might have a new # by the time we do out three way call, so we will have to be in touch via pm or the phone. Looking forward to it.

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"In disquisitions of every kind there are certain primary truths, or first principles, upon which all subsequent reasoning must depend." --Alexander Hamilton

Phil,
thank you for the slap in the face! I needed it! What was I thinking?

Anyway, I won't waste time arguing, but will take the time to dig up a letter that Sigmund Freud wrote to a close friend, where he flat out stated that his intention was to create a belief system (religion) to replace what he believed to be "false" religions.
Wait, Cmar studied this crap!! Should already be aware of it. If not, look it up yourself,Cmar. You can make of it what you will, I am done.

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A LIE BELIEVED BY EVERYBODY IS NOT THE TRUTH

One more slap in the face. Doh~! As a Mod you are supposed to Moderate which means to be moderate. I have spoken with Cmar and she has so much to offer it is hard to understand, and she has many connections. Don't let any of this be a hang up to our common goals. And please don't be insulting to her. I believe this stuff to be untrue philosophical nonsense as well. As there as more sects of Psychology than there are Christianity, if people want to throw rocks!

But lets try really hard to be respectful of others beliefs. Regardless of what they are, except when they interfere with the goals of the forums and common truth and awareness. It really then isn't crap like you said or nonsense which I said, but something she believes which is different than what we believe. And the art of persuasion is the only way to bridge the gap.

Proverbs 16 something or another;

A brother or sister offended is harder to win over than a walled city.

Thus it isn't in any of our best interests, including Cmar, to offend others. So lets try and moderate our tongues, and harsh judgments. The art of persuasian is all that matters. Take a look at Pauls sermon to the Pagans on Mars Hill and how he carefully avoided insulting them or their false gods...Read that sermon as we can all learn much from it.

cheers-
phil

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"In disquisitions of every kind there are certain primary truths, or first principles, upon which all subsequent reasoning must depend." --Alexander Hamilton

Was not my intent at all, trueblue, however it is you who owns how you feel.

trueblue wrote:I tend to agree.

trueblue wroteActually I don't. I appreciate full well the complexities of religious belief, but merely mentioned the siginificant stand-out points which seem to cover the vast majority of them, ie: choose THIS way and reap "reward'..vs don't choose it and "suffer". It is an across the board pre-requisite, just in certain religions, the reward/suffering differs as well as the location in some.

trueblue wroteI would be more than happy to and look forward to it. Do you wish to set it up somewhere on here or shall I?