What color is the sky in your world Jimo??

__________________
Jesus is the Way, the TRUTH, and The Life - the 9/11 truth WILL come out, He will not let the LIE stand! The word is getting out by leaps and bounds - let's stand together and be ready - because "the glass is about to overflow"!! ;)
-Kathy

Gosh are we Catholics, by speaking plainly about what is on our minds and how we feel about things making you feel picked on and bullied, Trueblue? We are sorry about that aren't we Lazarus....?

We sure wouldn't want to intimidate anyone by telling them about actual principles and precepts that we believe in, now would we?

Tell you what, Lazarus.... Why don't we try to be the Kinder, Gentler two witnesses for the Church. Not like the ones in Revelations with swords coming out of their mouths and breathing fire and all of that too crazy to be taken literally stuff. What could that kind of talk mean to these people anyway? We'll just talk about the next church bake sale or something...how about that, Trublue? Could you handle the news about the St. Joseph's bake sale we are having? Or is that subject too controversial for you, as well?

JimO

Sometimes blue, sometimes gray, and dark at night. Often nice red sunsets.

And your point is?

JO

ASSHOLES !

__________________
A LIE BELIEVED BY EVERYBODY IS NOT THE TRUTH

Pardon us if we do not respond in kind. Will there be anything further you would like to add?

JimO

PS Sister Rebecca's famous Blueberry tart Muffins $4.50 a six pack. What a steal!

I must simply tell you the truth on my mind, heart, soul and spirit. And it is this:

It is simply pointless responding to you, as it has become with SOTL and Mr. Jayhan as well. But I harbor gratitude to God, our Almighty Father in Heaven, for having provided me with the intellectual, emotional and spiritual company of Jimostr.

The reason why it has become utterly pointless to carry on this "ecumenical dialogue" with you, with SOTL or with Mr. Jayhan is that none of you take the time to read my posts.

You say you believe the bible - every last word of it. I say you don't!

I provided you with a long list of passage references from the New Testament books clearly indicating that Christ's Church here on earth had a religious hierarchy since its inception at Pentecost via the Descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Lord's Own Apostles.

Either you don't read my posts or you don't read the bible.

And as for your bible and the Hiearchy of the Catholic Church, it was the Hierarchy of the Catholic Church at the Catholic Church Councils of Carthage and Hippo (383 & 397 AD if my memory serves me correct) who decided which writings were to go into the Canonical Books of the New Testament.

Furthermore, the reason why the Hiearchy of the Catholic Church - meaning her Bishops - had to hold the Church Councils of Carthage and Hippo in order to examine, select, examine and publicly proclaim which writings were to go into the Catholic Church's Own Canon of Sacred Christian Scripture was to ensure that the public readings during authentic Christian worship conducted during the Mass/Divine Liturgy of the Christian congregations in the Christian Church the entire world over during that part of the Mass/Divine Liturgy known as 'The Liturgy of the Word' were, in fact, an authentic public proclamation/exposition of authentic Apostolic Teachings!

Now neither Luke or Mark were Apostles! They were direct converts to the Apostolic Faith by an Apostle himself. Luke become a Catholic Christian via the ministry of St. Paul. Mark became a Catholic Christian via the preaching and teaching of St. Peter.

Many of the Epistles you read in the Catholic Church's New Testament writings weren't even penned directly by those to whom it is ascribed.
The Letter to the Hebrews wasn't written by St. Paul. And the Epistles of St. John are attributed to the recording of disciples/converts of St. John!

So who had the authority to pick & choose which writings were either actual/direct Apostolic Teaching or contained authentic Apostolic Teaching?

The Bishops of the Church to whom the Apostles appointed to their office and ministry within the Church!

If you cannot or will not accept the authority Christ Jesus Himself gave to His Apostles to do His Will in establishing and building His Church here on earth by their appointing and selecting BISHOPS over geographical regions wherein the Church had spread and was established - then do all of us a big favor....simply throw away your bible and continue on by yourself conjuring up a new form of, a new type of, a new version of Christianity!

Stop relying on your bible! Stop using it as a personal crutch to propose and promote your personal version of Christianity! Simply proclaim you have had an angel from heaven visiting you and you've received the real, true and authentic Teachings of Christ from Heaven directly.

You will not accept the historical facts of the Christian Faith, nor of Christ's Own Teachings. You refuse to accept what is clearly contained within the bible. So at least be honest about all of this - you simply want your own religion wherein you yourself decide and/or dictate what it means to be 'saved' and how you go about obtaining your own version of what 'salvation' implies.

You, SOTL and Mr. Jayhan are angry that there is a Hierarchy in the Church precisely on account of the fact that you, yourselves, want to be your own Pope, your own Bishop, your own Priest to and for yourselves.
And you are all angry that believing Catholic Christians understand they have a spiritual duty to support their Bishops in building up the Church as members of the Laity. And you are all upset that during the history of the Catholic Church down through human history, there have been Kings and Queens, members of Monarchies over entire nations/states, rich and well endowed businessmen and landowners who were members of the Catholic Church who all endowed the Catholic Church and its Bishops with the material goods necessary to build and maintain the physical existance of the Catholic Church here in this physical world.

You, SOTL and Mr. Jayhan have yet to fully come to understand that the members of Christ's Catholic Church here in this world are a spiritual family. We have God the Father as our Father. God the Son as our Lord. God the Holy Spirit Who binds us all spiritually together - whether we know each other on a first name/personal basis or not. And our spiritual Mother of this extended spiritual family of God the Father is Christ's Own Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary, who was given to each and every last one of us Christ's disciples while He was in the very process of His Death upon His Cross. Giving us His Mother was His Very Own Last Will and Testament to those of us who accept Him as our Lord and our Savior.

It's right there in the bible - the Gospel of St. John - John 19:25-27.

The whole bloomin' world of non-Catholics and anti-Catholics who have a bible handy can read this Christian Truth for themselves! And I dare say that every last supposedly bible-believing non-Catholic theological opinion club which calls itself a church of Christ's Own treats the Theotokos, the Mother of Christ Jesus Himself, as if she were some sort of bag lady wandering the streets of the poor sections of their towns, cities and/or neighborhoods!

You all say you love Christ. Where is this love for Christ when you all treat His Mother like she is an unwanted appendage which simply does not jibe with your own bible based/believing theological opinion clubs which meet on Sundays or Wednesdays? Where is your human love of and for Christ Jesus, God Incarnate Himself, when you mock, belittle, despise and insult His Mother???

I, for one, am both simply sick and tired of having to put up with the twisted beliefs and heartless mindsets that individuals such as you, SOTL and Mr. Jayhan openly flaunt and promote here on this specifically very anti-Catholic Chrisitan topic and subject.

Perhaps I can console myself with exchanges with Mr. Jimostr. At least I know and can recognize the Holy Spirit alive, working and shining in him.

- Lazarus

Trueblue,

Regarding your personal spiritual/moral/intellectual abuse of Catholic Christians here on these forums adminstered by Mr. Jayhan in your publicly announcing we Catholic Christians are:

"ASSHOLES !" - quoting Trueblue's posting of April 03, 2006 - 12:55 am

I'm quite certain the Adminstrator of this website will allow that post to stand in public - he will not delete your textual message which took you about 5 seconds to think through, compose and post - and you will not be banned - despite what is publicly announced on this webpage of his:

http://www.letsrollforums.com/forums...?mode=register

Where, oh please do tell me were "in the bible" you once-saved and always-saved bible believing anti-Catholic self proclaiming christians are expressly allowed by Jesus Christ, the Lord of Heaven and earth, are given the Divine Permission as well as the Divine Mandate to be BOTH abusive towards Catholic Christians as well as overt hypocrites towards that which you publicly state is this forum's "Creed" as contained in the great Registration Form Confessional Statement of yours?

TOCARM had his time consuming replies giving ample explanations, biblical citations and other scholarly references deleted by this forum's Administrator to refute the various falsehoods he and the rest of you
vehemently anti-Catholic Christian so-called bible believers incessantly broadcast on this forum's subject with the Administrator's taunting and vindictive comments of 'This took you so long to write. Boo Hoo Hoo' addressed to tocarm for good measure.

I'm quite certain that the Adminstrator, Mr. Jayhan, relishes you posting, calling Catholic Christians 'ASSHOLES!' and he will neither personally delete your 5 seconds to writing posting nor will he so much as lift a finger to use his personal PC's keyboard to permanenty ban you from this forum and his website!

And both you and he are 'saved' - both freed by the shed Blood of Christ Jesus Himself He poured out in inexpressible agony while hanging and dying on His Cross to go on for all Eternity abusing, mocking, insulting and impugning Catholic Christians while overtly and shamelessly practicing public hypocrisy of your own norms, mores and standards!

Unchurched and irreligious people of our dying world mock what Christ came to earth to do and what is promoted/proclaimed as 'christian' and 'christianity' on account of all of you butchering-the-bible bible believers! And they look upon His Church with utter disgust on account of all the maliciously false charges you once-saved-always-saved bible butchering believers flaunt a proof that Christ's Own Church is an utter and miserable failure!

- Lazarus

[quote=lazarus]"Still, I (Jesus Christ) must tell you the truth:
it is for your own good that I am going
because unless I go,
the Advocate will not come to you;
but if I do go,
I will send Him to you.
And when He comes,
He will show the world how wrong it was,
about sin,
and about Who was in the right,
and about judgement:
about sin;
proved by their fefusal to believe in Me." - John 16:7-9


"'Take it and eat;' He said 'this is My Body.' Then He took a cup, and when He had returned thanks He gave it to them. 'Drink all of you from this,' He said 'for this is My Blood, the Blood of the Covenant, which is to be poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.'" - Matthew 26:27-29

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My dear seesomemore,

In a way, I really wished you had not interjected your manifold questions and questionings about Christ and the Church's Sacrament of the Eucharist. I've pretty much have had it with the many bible-butcheing so-called bible believers who all simply hate, despise, reject and belittle anything and everything held dear and sacred within the Catholic Church.

All I wanted to do was to forget this entire mess these other individuals have and are causing me as a Catholic Christian, and simply share the news of some recent joys and blessings God has allowed me to have with Mr. Jimostr who is now a brother in the Lord and member of the Family of God, the Church, here on earth.

But since you said 'I'm serious', maybe the Grace of God the Holy Spirit is calling you, too, to spiritual Divine Intimacy with God Himself - but then again you, too, can be harboring a malicious and vindictive spirit simply intent on continuing strife, antagonism, arguements, etc. with respect to the Catholic Church's Apostolic teaching that the bread and wine of the Western Church's Mass or the Eastern Church's Divine Liturgy becomes for us the Body and Blood of the Eternal Word of God Himself as our spiritual food as we sojourn through this lifetime experience of ours within this time-space-matter-energy side of His seen creation.

So please forgive me, my dear seesomemore, if I seem a wee bit disinterested and curt in answering your questions about the Christian Eucharist. I've had it with Trueblue, SoldieroftheLord, Mr. Jayhan and the entire phalanx of individuals on these forums who are die-hard Catholic Church haters who will not read my posts, not consider my explanations and will not so much as give me the human-to-human decency of not calling me an asshole.

I don't know exactly how much you know of what is recorded in the bible, but Jesus Christ clearly instructs us all that His (and our!) Heavenly Father ensures He winds up feeding the birds found within His Own seen creation.
In other words, God the Fahter makes Divine Provision to ensure all of His creatures receive the proper nourishment and sustinance they require to continue on living in His creation with the created natures that He has given to them all.

Seesomemore - we human beings are what is called in theological terminology "incarnate spirits". We are human persons and our human nature - in order to be fully alive as a human being - requires nourishment for both our personal physical bodies as well as our unseen spiritual selves.

God the Father, working through and with His Incarnate Divine Son, Jesus Christ, multiplied gobs and gobs of fish and bread to feed thousands upon thousands of people all at one setting. God the Father and His Divine Son showed the Supernatural Reality of Their Divine Ability to provide the nourishment thousands of human beings required for their physical bodies at one setting.

Now then, what about our spiritual selves? This unseen part of us as human beings which makes us our own indivdual person?

Since it is our spirits which is, in effect, this spark of life we all contain within ourselves and which animinates the rest of our human nature, what possibly can God give to us in order to feed our spirits? True, our physical bodies require physical and material foodstuffs in the forms of solids and liquids. But our spirits...what do spirits need? They need a Spiritual Food.

Our physical bodies extract the physical/material nutrients from the solids and liquids we swallow and ingest every day of our lives. And our spiritual selves need to swallow, to ingest, something on a regular basis as well in order for our spirit to extract the necessary spiritual/unseen nutrients from this Unseen Spiritual Food that God the Father provides for us.

God Himself is the Source Substance of all that is Spiritually Alive and Living since He Himself has Eternal Life and is Divinely Self-Sustaining.
Hence, in order for God the Father to spiritually feed us incarnate spirits, that is to say human beings who are worth much more than any collection of sparrows, He has to give Himself to us in order to eat, to ingest and to digest in order for us to extract the necessary spiritual nutrients that make up and compose God's Own Divine Nature.

So God tells His Church to take bread and wine which are physically solid and liquid. And God tells His Church to commerorate His Sacrificial Death on His Cross as "The Lamb Of God" via the Priestly Prayer of Christ Jesus Himself. And when the Church does that, Christ Jesus transforms both the nature and the signifance of the bread and wine into His Very Self - His Body and His Blood.

This was all prefigured for the entire human race by God Himself in the historical account of the Old Testament where Moses tells God's People to kill a lamb, to roast it and to eat it, after they have sprinkled the blood of the lamb on the doorposts leading into their homes. In having done that out of obedience to YHWH, the angel of death which visits Pharoah's people and which goes about killing off the first born of every Egyptian without the markings/subtance of God's sacrificial lamb, spares the Hebrews who have all obeyed God's prophet Moses.

Now if a Hebrew family did not sprinkle the blood of the slain lamb of God and if they did not eat its roasted flesh - the angel of death would have promptly killed off their first born child as well. Being either an Epyptian or a Hebrew was a secondary matter to God. Whoever obeyed the instructions of God's prophet Moses were spared death visiting their home.

So it don't matter what race or nationality a person comes from. If anybody alive on planet earth from any nation, country, state or geographical region obeys God's Own Son, Jesus Christ Himself, and avails himself, herself or themselves of the Spiritual Food which is the Body and Blood of God Incarnate Himself in the Apostolic Christianity's Sacrament of the Christian Eucharist, then God Himself gives you spiritual life.

Or maybe you might understand the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ in the Mass or Divine Liturgy of His Church here on earth as a kinda-sorta form of blood transfusion. We are all spiritual wounded on account of sin. In effect, we are all hemoraging and bleeding to death. And unless we can find a source to replish this spiritual life that is ebbing away from us day to day, we are at some point going to experience our own permanent and eternal spiritual death(s)!

Or maybe this way - you got your SUV with a full tank of gas. The amount of fuel you have in our tank will take you just so far. After it is all used up, you come to a grinding halt - hopefully not in the middle of a desert or in the middle of some bleak, uninhabitable region on the surface of planet earth.

That's enough of my catechism lesson on the Church's Christian Sacrament of the Eucharist.

You might say 'Thank you!' to me - or you might just like all the rest of these anti-Catholic Church enemies here on this forum with some rude, unkind, malicious, vindictive statement or bible-butchering commentary such as 'ASSHOLE!' like trueblue. We'll see.

(and I was simply going to share a note with Mr. Jimostr! Maybe tomorrow.)

- Lazarus

Good morning Seesomemore,

If you are really and truly interested in coming to a fuller and deeper knowledgeable understanding of the Catholic Church's Sacrament of the Eucharist - the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ Himself as our Spiritual Food - then please to avail yourself of at least these two book which you can obtain from any old bookstore throughout the United States of America.

1) Theology for Beginners, by Frank Sheed

2) A Key to the Doctrine of the Eucharist, by Abbot Vonier

So many people have a copy of the Catholic Church's bible, but they don't really read it. By believing they have a copy of the bible, they believe that it is some sort of magickal talisman which will secure their winning God's Favor and Eternal Blessing, allowing them the Divine Right to do anything they want in they think is spiritual freedom which is, in all reality, nothing but spiritual licentiousness.

Remember this, the very first bible-fundamentalist who challenged Jesus Christ over and over and over again about His Divinity and His Divine Teachings had this to say in quoting Sacred Scripture, the bible, itself:

"The devil (Satan) then took Him to the holy city and made Him stand on the parapet of the Temple. 'If you are the Son of God' he said 'throw yourself down; for Scripture (the bible) says: 'He (God) will put You in His Angel's charge, and they will support You on their hands in case Your hurt your foot against a stone.' Jesus said to him, Scripture (the bible) also says: 'You must not put the Lord your God to the test.'" - Matthew 4:5-7

There are simply too many people in our world today who, with their copy of Sacred Scripture in their hands and who conjure up their own erroneous personalized interpretations from it, boldly and recklessly challenge and contest virtually everything and anything that Christ Jesus Himself entrusted to His Church to teach and preach to all the peoples of the nations of our world!

The Protestant Revolt with its spiritual battle cries of 'Sola Scriptura' (the bible alone) as well as 'Sola Fide!' (saved by faith alone) had a diabolical dimension to it since all the allied occult groups throughout the world hail it as their 'long awaiting purification of the Church'!

Anybody and everybody is now permitted to 'put the Lord your God to the
test' by their personal contesting of everything Christ taught, Christ built, Christ pronounced and Christ established.

Approach these spiritual Divine & Supernatural Things of Christ Jesus with
a sincere attitude of wanting to show simple reverence towards God despite the fact you might be entirely ignorant of His Church and His Teachings, and God Himself will assist you with both the Grace and Guidance you need to grow in the spiritual knowledge and spiritual intimacy with Him.

- Lazarus