Wrong again,Tokarm!
I have been defending the teachings of Jesus Christ all along.

You are defending the Catholic Church.

If we are defending the same thing, there's no argument,right?
No one,including you, has been "authorized" to "make pronouncements on God incarnate's own divine teachings".

Clue for the "clueless Catholic Christian"; Do you have faith in Jesus Christ?
If you do, why do you ask "his mother" and a host of dubious saints for favors? Do you really think Jesus,"God incarnate", needs the help of mortals?

He came to help us, not to recruit us to help him!
You seem to have a very strong faith in the Catholic church, but very little, if any , faith in God.

__________________
A LIE BELIEVED BY EVERYBODY IS NOT THE TRUTH

Applaud*1,000,000.

This is the 2nd time you came through and took the words out of my mouth, unlike Tocarm, who puts words INTO my mouth and makes wild ASSUMPTIONS (When did I claim to be Christ?!?!).

Tocarm, all believers are trying to be looked in the eyes of God, as he looks to the Church of Philadelphia. Whether your a Protestant, Evangelist, Adventist, Jehova's Witness, or even Catholic, if you truly in your heart love the Lord and want to know the truth, then you would love to be apart of the Church of Philadelphia.



Rev 3:7 "To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

I do NOT belong to any of the churches I mentioned before, nor are they even mentioned in the Bible. I am not even apart of the Church of Philadelphia. BUT, I sure would like to be. Just like you.

Trueblue, Cage305,

NEITHER ONE OF YOU accept simple principles such as "The Square Root of 144 is 12" as being 'true' back in the times of Christ or going into the 21st century! If Christ taught something back in the time of Apostles, then what He taught 2,000 years ago is STILL TRUE going into the 21st century!

Now who's 'christianity' are we going to have here? Christ's or yours?

I maintain the the Catholic Church's teachings are TRUE and VALID. They were TRUE and VALID in the 1st century and they are TRUE and VALID in the 20th century.

God doesn't change.

The 'bible belieiving REFORMER' Luther rejected the books of Hebrews, James and Revelation. The Catholic Church INSISTS they are part and parcel of the Apostolic Christian Faith.

Every last one of the 27,000 Protestant denominations REJECT that the Catholic Church's Christian Eucharist is, in fact, the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, just like Jesus taught in the Gospel accounts and which St. Paul His Apostle teaches in 1 Corinthians.

Just HOW MANY BOOKS of the Bible must you 'bible believers' RIP OUT and THROW AWAY?

Just HOW MANY BIBLICAL PASSAGES of the Bible must you 'bible believers' CUT OUT and THROW AWAY?

How long, just HOW LONG, are all of you members of the 27,000+ 'bible believers' are going TO TRASH and DISCARD that which 'The Bible' clearly and lucidly teaches?

To be a 'bible believing' Protestant means that you can 'STAND FOR ANYTHING'. To be a 'bible believing' Catholic means that you must 'STAND FOR SOMETHING'.

If you REJECT the clear, lucid and simple teachings and explanations of Christ Jesus in His Own Church's Canon of Sacred Christian Scripture, then why are you going around telling people 'you believe Christ' and that you are 'christians'?

Stop this HYPOCRISY of yours. Either ACCEPT what Christ Jesus says is the answer to the answer of what the square root of 144 is!

If CHRIST JESUS HIMSELF selected and appointed His Apostles, then LISTEN TO what His Apostles have to say, what His Apostles have to teach, what His Apostles have to preach, what His Apostles have to insist upon! Either do THAT or make yourselves "'bible-owning Diotrephes'" OR 'bible-owning Alexanders, the coppersmiths"!

"I have written a note for the members of the Church, but DIOTREPHES, who seems to enjoy being in charge of it, REFUSES TO ACCEPT US."
- 3 John 9

"Alexander the coppersmith has done me a lot of harm, the Lord will repay him for what he has done. Be on guard against him yourself, because he has been BITTERLY CONSTESTING EVERYTHING THAT WE SAY." - 2 Timothy 4:14-15

What specifically DID St. Paul have 'to teach' CHRISTIANS of Christ's Own Church?? Here ya go!

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2;&version=31;

You guys wanna SEE 'PROOF' that the Catholic Church's Christian Eucharist IS the very Body and Blood of Jesus Christ? Ya wanna play 'hardball'?

YES OR NO?

So how comes you guys AREN'T GOING TO the MASS of the Catholic Church?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...5;&version=31;


You guys EXPLAIN THAT TO ME!

- tocarm
http://www.carmelnet.org

And this OTHER SILLINESS that goes on these forums regarding 'The Catholic Church' is gonna stop - right here and right now!

"I'm Laying Down The Law!"

If you wanna discuss, impugn, belittle, mock, discredit the Catholic Church, then you HAD BETTER put it right up from 'in the public domain' here on these forums just exactly WHICH of the 27,000 P-denominations you're coming from - the name of your 'bible-belieiving church' and your 'bible-believing church's' CHIEF-COOK & BOTTLE WASHER or whatever else you might entitle 'The King Pin' of your cult, sect, demonination, ashram, temple...whatever 'it' is that you belong to or hail from!

You post your 'Chief Cook & Bottle Washer's' NAME here and where I can contact him/her/it/whatever.

I don't understand why all of you 'bible-believers in Christ' ARE SO ASHAMED of your 'cult/sect/whatever' as well as SO ASHAMED of your cult/sect/denomination's "Chief Cook & Bottle Washer"!

And if you DON'T POST what cult/sect/church you come from and if you DON'T POST the name of your cult/sect's 'Chief Cook & Bottle Washer' - then THAT is your own personal and PUBLIC ADMITTANCE that you ARE ASHAMED OF whatever you hail from!

- tocarm
http://www.carmelnet.org

"Let's Get ECUMENICAL! La De Dah!"

When did I say I was apart of ANY denomination? The only thing I am ashamed of is being born into a church that prays to beings other than God, follows PAGAN tradition, and deceives millions upon millions. What's even worse is they know it, even if it is a minority of them. I am not apart of any denomination. If it's too hard for you to grasp and understand, than that is YOUR problem. Too bad.

Chill out !! Tokarm

__________________
A LIE BELIEVED BY EVERYBODY IS NOT THE TRUTH

No, I don't need to 'chill out'. This 'world' I happen to live in is a much too COLD place in which to live.

No, what's needed is for people to get themselves a wee bit 'heated up' and 'hot under the collar' about what is going on as well as what they BELIEVE.

It's good that I don't have to take cage305 serious any longer. Having no knowledge of 'The Bible', on knowledge of theology, lacking any concern with history and philosophical developments, I can now ignore him. He has his own religion, religion and philosophical and theological thought system spinning its gears within his mind, heart, soul and spirit. Like one of the non-canonical Gospel account versions records Jesus saying:

"These people are drunk. When they become sober, they will be able to hear and understand."

So onto you.

Why are you ashamed to identify which sect/cult/denomination you hail from?

Why are you ashamed of Jesus Christ's Own Divine Teaching and Revelation?

And why are you so ashamed of HIS MOTHER? Jesus Christ was never ashamed of His mother, isn't ashamed of His mother and will never be ashamed of His mother.

You tell me why all these 'bible-believing' self-proclaiming 'christians' in our world today are ASHAMED to either privately or publicly THANK GOD for Christ Jesus' own mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary.

- tocarm
http://www.carmelnet.org

How many books will the 'bible-believing' protestants "take out" or "leave out"? Only the books ADDED by the Catholic church.

WHO DECIDES which 'books' BELONG IN/TO the Christian Church? A group meeting of rabbis who rejected Christ in/around 100 AD or the leaders of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH?

That ought to be a 'no brainer' to those who will actuallyTHINK about it!

'Sola Scriptura' @
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura

'Protestants & 'Sola Scriptura' @
http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodic...sues/sola.html

Those who REJECT the Catholic Church's doctrines and dogmas BUT who accept 'The Bible' as their personal/subjective/ever-changing and ever-changeable 'bible-believing' authority TO MAKE UP any and every sort of 'Christianity' have a big....BIG PROBLEM...

...if the doctrines and dogmas of the Catholic Church were SO CORRUPTED and SO WRONG at the time of Luther's/Calvin's BUTCHERING of 'The Bible' in the 1500's - what makes all the 'bible believers' in THE ENTIRE WORLD think that - in addition to 'adding to' the Canonical books of 'The Bible' - that the CATHOLIC CHURCH did not >>DELIBERATELY/MALICIOUSLY/SATANICALLY alter, mistranslate, change, subtract from or manufacture/fabricate ANYTHING ELSE in whatever 'books' in THE BIBLE - either in the books of the Old Covenant or within the books of the New Covenant? Why, your 'Bibles' and your 'Bible Translations' in your hands RIGHT NOW can be a 'SATANIC CONSPIRACY' - a centuries old satanic conspiracy! dating back to the 1st century - having been SO MANGLED in being copies and transmitted 'down through the centuries' by the bishops, priests, monks and nuns of the CATHOLIC CHURCH!

The Protestant Reformation and all the 'bible-believing anti-Catholics' in the entire world OWE their 'religious faith' and their 'christian doctrines' to a HUMAN ACT...

....their 'Five-Finger Discount' of THE BIBLE from the Catholic Church!

"Thou Shalt Not Steal!" - perhaps THAT Commandment of God has been 'reformed' as well!

Christian unity throughout the entire world will return the very day all the 'Stolen Bibles' are RETURNED to the Catholic Church - meaning to say, all those with their 'Bibles' LISTEN TO and HEED what the successors of the Apostles have to 'FINALLY SAY' about everyone's own PERSONAL interpretation of the Catholic Church's Own Canon of Sacred CHRISTIAN Scripture.

And as a 'By The Way' - the BISHOPS of the Catholic Church decided WHICH BOOKS go into the Church's Canon of Sacred CHRISTIAN Scripture so that CHRISTIANS the world over would have a CANON OF NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES from which they could READ THE WORD OF GOD during an authentic and valid CHRISTIAN MASS during that portion of THE MASS known as 'The Liturgy Of The Word'!

But what 'bible-believing' protestants nowadays GO TO MASS anyways?

"This is My Body....This is My Blood" - Jesus Christ's OWN WORDS!!! And His Words are FOUND IN 'THE BIBLE'! And St. Paul the Apostle clearly gives his own APOSTOLIC TEACHING about 'The Eucharist' in 1 Corinthians!

But 'bible-believing' protestants give themselves THE AUTHORITY to reject whatever they want as well as add whatever they want to CHRIST'S OWN TEACHINGS!

Make up your mind and your heart. Either be A CHRISTIAN, a disciple of Christ and faithful to His Apostles teachings (cf Acts 2:42) - OR - make up whatever sort(s) of 'kinda/sota like chrisitan-bible disbelieving' man-made protestant 'religions'.

'Ecumenically yours',
- tocarm
http://www.carmelnet.org

Tokarm

You seem to think the King James version of the Bible is as different from yours as the Book of Mormon!

The only real difference is in how the different groups interpret them.

I do not now, nor have I ever been involved with a cult, sect or organized religion of any kind.
You, on the other hand, are.

You need to think about that, deeply!
Your faith in the Catholic Church is EXACTLY the same kind of faith the average person has in government officials.

They are the ones entrusted with safeguarding the founding principles of our country. So, they must be telling us the truth, right?

__________________
A LIE BELIEVED BY EVERYBODY IS NOT THE TRUTH