Phil can "phil" you in on this subject better than I can, but in a netshell, it would appear that the promise of God to Eve, passed down as an oral tradition regarding the nature of her seed which would crush the head of Satan, was co-opted by the earliest Egyptians, in fact by the very founders of that civilization, and appropriated as their central cornerstone for their underworld occult death to resurrection religion and practice (mumification), wherein Horus was a type of the sun, and this was the basis of all the heliocentric Babylonian mystery religions, Horus, aka Nimrod.

There are many parrallels, between the more ancient Horus tradition and system, and the Jesus story as given in the gospels, which is increasingly becoming a point of contention, which sceptics and atheists use as a framework for a deniable plausibility, as to the very existence of Jesus.

Jesus may even have been indoctrinated by a sect, to whom his cousin, John the Baptist belonged, called the Essenes, and this group would have been very well aquainted with the Horus mythology and the promise to Eve, yet practiced as escetic Jews. Note here that the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees was by far surpassed by the Essenes.

Jesus, in making his demonstration, and fulfilling the promise to eve, and all the other prophecies concerning the messiash, also wished to show that HE himself was the light of life, and of a higher order of power than even the sun, which he referred to as God's sun, "which shines it's light on both the wicked and the just."
And so what do we see Jesus doing? We see him fullfilling the promise to Eve, AND the Horus myth which was based upon it, obliterating death itself in the process, or doing the ACTUAL THING itself!

Phil, I'll need your help in this thread drawing all the connections, and joining up the historical dots, but it's an important topic, given all the "Zeitgeist mania" around these days, with Zeitgeist consistently at the top of Google Video. I even saw a program on the CBC here in Canada, called "The Pegan Christ", which aimed to show essentially the same argument as presented in Zeitgeist.

However, this thread is not intended as an anti-Zeitgeist Christian apologia, but a simple and reasonable, well researched, historical fact, which I'll need phil's and other's help with.

But I do believe that it's self evident, and can be proven, that number one, Jesus was a real historical figure, and two, that he was aware of both the Jewish tradition and the heliocentric religious system, and that he conducted his demonstration on the basis of both frameworks, revealing something greater than both, while functioning wholely within the Jewish tradition, since "salvation comes from the Jews" - read Jesus conversation with the woman at the well, which I think is in Mathew. Phil has an interesting observation about that one as well.

Phil? Can you help me out with this thread when you get a chance. Thanks, and thanks again for all your invaluable research which may very well be of immense and incaculable value, in the final analysis.

__________________
On the 11th day, of every monthhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nR...irdstage%2Ehtm
http://truthaction.org/

Thanks Rob, first of all for all your research here at the forums and helping to create conversation amongst the members. Your Flight 175 research on the Cargo tanker is an excellent thread, which people can find here;

Sticky: "Flight 175" WAS a Cargo/FUEL TANKER ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page) hdhntr: 307 146,374 Total Views

Regarding the Mythology of Horus, or the "Myth" of Horus; Not everything that is a "Myth" is false. And because something has the "label" Mythical tagged onto it, doesn't mean it isn't true. And Horus is a perfect example of this;

All of the World at one time spoke Sumerian, and it was at that time the only language in the world. It is our Mother tongue. The Babylonian cuneiform language will support this supposition. How can we know this? Because in Babylon there are two basic languages we see through archeology; Sumerian, and Babylonian Cuneiform. We know that the Babylonian Empire predates that of the Egyptian Empire or Dynasties because all of the languages, hieroglyphs and cuneiform are in Egyptian alone. There is no real evidence the Sumerian language ever made it to Egypt. Which is odd because the Egyptian Dynasties were founded by the same people who founded the Babylonian Empire. As well as that of the Assyrian Empire, which predates Babylon's Rise.

The reason this back story is necessary is because of what happened in and at Babylon regarding the Sumerian language. And this will soon enough tie into Horus, but this information is needful to know, so please bear with me.

In Babylon, a man rose to power, whose name in the Bible is Nimrod. And although there is scant information available in the Bible about this man, it isn't because he is a small figure in the scheme of World History. His legacy lives on to this very day in ways you might not discern or understand. At the time when only Sumerian was spoken in the World, he was easy enough to track and study, for he had only one name, and a few god titles which he was known by and worshipped. Nimrod was an extremely evil person. And rose to become King of Babylon;

Nimrod was the Son of Cush (Cush would later come to be known as the great god Mercury) Nimrod was the grandson of Ham, who was one of Noah's triplet Sons. [Ham, Shem and Japeth] Thus he also was the great grandson of Noah. To the chagrin of Bible skeptics, Nimrod was very much as very real and historical figure. And his lineage can indeed be traced back to Noah. It is and has been documented. While many people bemoan all of the begats in the bible, they are indeed there for a very good reason.

Nimrod, Cush, and Ham would become a mighty Juggernaut in the Genesis of all things, and are the foundation of the present systems we now live under. These three men would shape world history in more ways than are comprehensible to most people. Noah was a man who followed a God named YHWY.



The World Wide Flood of God and Noah's Ark:

Or in Hebrew. Noah was told by YHWY that because of the Worlds great violence and wickedness, that YHWY was going to destroy the earth, and start it all over again through Noah and his wife, and his three sons, and their wives. Gods warning to Noah was that we was going to destroy the earth through floodwaters, and instructed Noah to build an Ark. The building of this Ark was a monumental and gargantuan project. It was built by Noah and the other 7 people who would eventually get into it. It took 120 years to finish the project.

The year of this flood varies amongst scholars, but the generally accepted year of the flood is 1656 AC* or 2344 BC. [*After Creation] Thus Adam and Eve would have been created at about 4000 years before Christ. I have looked over the following table and so far believe it is accurate; It will show the ages, and genealogies of Man from the beginning; Our Genesis.


Original link for Chart:
http://www.bible-truth.org/GEN5.HTM

(1) (2)

While I understand that many people will of course have problems and issues believing this to be true, I personally think there is an abundance of reasons to believe it is true, and offer at the very least a competing theory which can rival or overtake beliefs which are based upon this NOT being true. First of all, many of the people in Genesis can indeed be traced back through history, and be shown they were real people. I believe I have done this with Nimrod, and the others mentioned. We must remember that we go to public schools which not only teach us the opposite of all of this, but they replace this information with a competing rival secular theory of their own. Which is evolution. Many Christians try and combine both creation and evolution and create their understanding based upon that. Remember, we have in America, 100 years of Rockefeller education. He has controlled our schoolbooks for this long. And very good evidence can be presented to show Rockefeller belongs to the other side, and himself is a worshipper of all the false gods presented in this thread, with ties back to Rome as well. And all through time, him and others like him have controlled and shaped history. And your news, and schoolbooks. They belong to that Power Structure which has always suppressed this information. We have the best education that Rockefellers money can buy! This alone is a good reason to take our time in the study of this and consider it based upon as much evidence as can be gleaned. Please consider the opening lines of the Matrix;

(3)
Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Neo: What truth?

Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.

Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.

Many people who do not consider themselves Christians also combine both the competing theories of creation and evolution. And then there are those who believe one prominent theory over the other, Creation or Evolution, without combining the two. The reasons God gave us all the genealogies and the endless begats in the Bible is because these people can actually be traced back through our own history. The example of Nimrod alone is a good example of this. So this is what I have found to be true, and because of this, I believe it. I am not dogmatic about it or try to impose this on others. I write this for your consideration. As will be seen in this thread, there are good reasons to consider this and perhaps embrace it. While I understand there are plausible reasons for everyone to believe whatever it is they do believe, that we can find the answers to these questions, and many of them come from following and understanding the genealogies of the 'gods' mentioned in Genesis. Because of the genealogies we can trace our own lineage back to those mentioned in the beginning of Genesis. Which in my opinion is a good reason to believe this, or at least consider this information. What does it hurt to consider alternative theories to something which I believe is important to all of us? Many of us here have already learned to think outside the box. This is no different and I hope people will consider this with an open mind inasmuch as is possible for them. We are all after and in pursuit of truth. So it never hurts to consider rival alternatives to things we believe. Especially when good evidence can be presented for a rival belief.

But please remember, this is difficult to understand. It takes time and study. Just like it took time and study for many of you to come to the place your now at with regards to 911. And even still many of you have grown in the understanding of how deep the lie is. It is the same with this material. It will take time to absorb, understand and run through the filters in our mind before we can choose for ourselves whether or not it is true.



Noahs Ark & Discovery:

This Ark was so large, there would not be another ship built which was it's equal in size and cargo capabilities till around 1870. A space in time of roughly 4400 years. The ships dimensions were 515 feet long by 75 feet wide, and 75 feet high. While may people have searched for the Ark over the years, it has never been "officially" found. The two most popular competing theories on it's final resting place is either Mt. Ararat, situated in Modern day Turkey, or at Mt. Judi. From all available evidence, I personally believe that the Ark was indeed found on Mt. Judi. The Bible itself informs us that the Ark finally came to rest on Mt. Ararat. But Mt. Ararat is not a single mountain, but a range of mountains named Ararat and have many mountains.



Geologic Columns and the Age of the Earth:

Modern day scientists often mistake the geologic columns found in archeology as strata that was formed over billions of years. But one of the variables they always seem to leave out, and apparently intentionally, is that this strata or geologic columns were a by product of the flood and the violence of the floodwaters on earth unleashed by YHWY. The easiest way to see this and understand it is this; Take a handful of clay, a handful of pebbles, a handful of sand, a handful of dirt and a handful of peat moss and place them in a beaker. Shake violently for 30 seconds. And allow it to settle. And when it settles you will see that you have just created "geologic columns."

Each ingredient will settle in layers, just as is found in the strata which is alleged to be billion of years old, and billions of years in forming. It is an extremely simple, yet powerful demonstration which simply shows the bias of modern day science to investigate all suppositions and theories regarding the age of the earth. As well as how the strata were formed. Science is not true science unless it investigates all possible suppositions and competing theories, can reproduce the end thesis in laboratory conditions, and is "observable." e.g. Can be reproduced or observed in laboratory conditions or in natural phenomena; Thus the idea or theory that the earth was formed over billions of years is just that, a simple theory with really no hard scientific data to back up its findings.



Seashells on Mountain Tops?

Consider the fact that on top of the facts above, that seashells have been found on the tops of every single mountain, even the highest mountains such as Mt. Everest & Mt. Kilamanjaro.

While Modern day science will tell you this has to be the result of shifting plate tectonics, there is a much simpler, and far easier theory to explain the phenomena. Noah's flood and the great violence and upheaval caused by this world wide flood.

Gen 7:19
And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that [were] under the whole heaven, were covered.

Gen 7:20
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.


The Propagation of the Species:

When Noah's Ark settled, perhaps on Mt. Judi, the Ark and its inhabitants were slowly unloaded and the animals let go into the new world. The many different species would intermingle with other species of their own kind to create a multitude of new sub genus's. All of todays species and their sub genus counterparts are far more in number than those which were on the Ark. To this day, new sub genus sub species are being created each and every year. To see a simple example of how this works, you can simply look at the Mule, or the Clydesdale Horses. Another way of seeing this simple dynamic in operation is the breeding of dogs. New breeds of dogs are made every year. And in theory, there is no end to hw many new different breeds of dogs can be made. Now multiply this observable principle & phenomena by thousands, tens of thousands, and you will see how we ended up with millions, perhaps billions of different animals, birds, reptiles, and the like. Each species is technically capable of reproducing with any other species or sub species of its own kind.

As a matter of fact, it is happening and has happened just as God ordered in Genesis opening chapters;

Gen 1:24 ¶And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.



The History of Man after the Flood:

When Noah's Ark landed, over time and after a while, Noah's Sons and their wives separated and went forth to conquer the Earth and re-inhabit the earth. By the time they separated they all probably had had several children between the 4 pairs of humans. Over a space of some twenty to 30 years. Noah's sons were triplets. Perhaps even identical triplets. He had three sons; Shem, Ham and Japeth. By the time of their separation, Noah's grand children were more than likely already reproducing themselves. Noah would be the founder of the first new Kingdom, and would Reign as King over this first new Kingdom. Because he was the new Father of the new creation, it was often said that he was "without mother, and without Father" and after the confusion of the languages, would be known by many as the High Priest Melchizidech.

Only one of Noah's three Sons would end up following [YHWY] the God of his Father, Noah. This would be Shem. Both Ham and Japeth, for whatever reasons, as it is unknown, ended up making up false gods of their own, and followed after them. They ended up worshipping the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars. As well as other invented deities and the worship of the dead. Eventually they would also end up setting up systems of worship actually based upon themselves as the deities of worship. They would become known as the gods. Eventually, large arenas were made in different places as homage to these gods. Some of these are still here today, an example of this is the Greek Pantheon, as well as Mars Hills in Rome. All of the gods in these places were at one time real men, and were of the people we are here discussing. They became known as gods because of their longevity of life. With the oldest known human clocking in at 969 years. His name was Methusalah, who died the very day the Flood began. Ironically or more probably prophetically, his name means; "When he dies, it shall come." This will all be discussed and covered later as it is contention with many people, even amongst Christians. There are reasons why they lived to such great years, and if you feel you cannot wait until it is covered later, you can find the reason in Genesis 7.



The Age of the Titans, the gods, Men of Renown:

The two central figures and their offspring who would now take center stage in this age of the World were Shem and Ham. Japeth would be a lesser figure, but still played a relevant role in the formation of the foundation of World history; Noah too would take a central role and lay foundations as well which would form rival communities to those of his two Sons who didn't follow after his god, YHWY. At this time, the only language spoken was Sumerian. The entire world spoke a single language. This would change over time. Yet not by increments, but rather another intervention by God, or YHWY.

Ham, Son of Noah would end up eventually departing from the plains of Southern Russia, going west, and founding the people of the East African Continent. Settling in what is known today as Egypt. He and his family would end up populating nearly of all what we now know as Africa, and eventually after a few generations, would become known as the Dark-Heads, because of their dark skin color.

Shem would depart and go east, along with his wife and their children and grandchildren. Shem would end up being the founder of the Orient, or the Asian people. Both Shem and Ham respectively would become Kings of their own new lands.

While Japeth settled pretty much where they landed, in what is now known as Southern Russia. Japeth would become the Father of all the white people or pink skinned people. Later, after God would confuse the tongues of the world, all of these men and their wives would become known by many names and many titles. One of the names of Japeth in another of these languages, was Arya. He would become the Father of all the Aryan people. He would also later discover a new land in his sea travels, which he named after himself, and it was named "Aryaland." We know this Nation today as "Ireland." Arya, or Japeth would become the Father of all the Nordic races;

Noah's Son, Ham, who founded Egypt, would also be the founder of more places in his own travels by sea. He is the person who became the founder of what we now know as "Rome." But when he discovered it and populated it, he named it after one his his own names or titles, which came after the confusion of tongues which would come later. He named it the City of Saturn. He was known as the great god Saturn.



Have to take a pause here at this time and will finish writing this story tomorrow after I wake up; Temporarily going to lock this thread for everyone but Mods. As this information needs to be all together in a linear fashion. After this me and Omegapoint will open this for discussion & questions and further research and inquiry;

I hope this is as fascinating to you as it is to me and Rob! Each one of us deserves to at least hear the true history of the world and have a choice of whether we reject it or not. This is all documented and factual; My apologies for not getting right into horus, but to be honest, time is limited, and wanted to simply cover all the bases from the beginning. The story of Horus would not make much sense unless it is given in the context of what went before, and what went after. Tonight we have covered for the most part, what went before. Tomorrow we will cover what came after. And then dive into the "Mythology of Horus himself."

Cheers-
Phil

(1) http://www.bible-truth.org/GEN5.HTM
(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah's_Ark
(3) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/quotes

__________________


"In disquisitions of every kind there are certain primary truths, or first principles, upon which all subsequent reasoning must depend." --Alexander Hamilton

Thanks Phil, I was hoping you'd take this one up, and it's pinging a lot of views quickly.

What's interesting, is the way that Horus was separated into pieces when they killed him and distributed his body, which his father then sowed together and attempted a resurrection and how this then led to the Egyptian method of mummification.

The reason I am so excited about this, is that the spirit tells me you are correct that the Egyptian death and resurrection cult was formed by Isis and Osiris' appropriation (theft, hijacking) of God's promise to Eve, and to Satan, regarding the nature of her seed which would crush his head, and I do believe that Jesus, and Mary (noting Mary's awareness at the Wedding at Canaan - In Luke chapter 3 - in which she KNEW what was going to happen, in response to which Jesus said "woman, my time has not yet come" after which he went ahead and did it anyway, turning the water into wine) had access to this information (serendipitously) via the Essenian sect (which warrents further research) who adhered to purity laws stricter than the temple priests and who studiously kept the ancient documents and manuscripts of Judaism and who were responsible for the Dead Sea Scrolls. It should be noted that after Jesus, this group was shunned by other Christians as heretics because they refused to accept the doctrinal decision of the Council of Nicea (325 C.E.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes

The reason this is so exciting is because if true, which I am convinced it is, what it means is that all the Secret Societies and Babylonian Occults have swallowed a lie regarding Horus, believing falsely, that the Horus myth and archetype was so informative, that it manifested in the person and life of Jesus Christ (ie: preceded Christ in a historically informative manner), when the truth of the matter is that Jesus was the revelation of God's promise to Eve, where the points of similarity are either that of Jesus simply showing that he was the real deal (what Horus is only an immitation of), due to his awareness and understanding of his actual position, &/or some layering onto Jesus of the Horus motifs, which is possible. A mason friend of mine indicated that the Gospel of John was written for a masonic lodge.. and so it's possible that the documents were converted from historical biography to apocrypha or faith based documents with SOME Horus related things added. Nevertheless, what we find in Jesus is something living, and in Horus, something dead, and a pale immitation, and so theirs is a FALSE religion and a death cult the reward for which isn't life meeting life in an eternal wellspring of life, but death meeting death, unto destruction and dissolution/separation and scattering. Isis and Osiris and their offspring Horus are not a unifying principal in other words. And those who cling to it, are like a house divided against itself, since they are functioning at odds with the will and the glory of God who is Jesus, and HIS death and resurrection, which represents the actuality of God's own manifestation in history.

So it is Satanic, in so far as the goal is to bypass Christ, and the authority and authenticity of Christ (who's divine logos (meaning) and will to righteousness as the will of his heavenly father, never wavered), in favour of the false and dead immitation, in a vain attempt to give it life, in the same way that Horus' father Osiris tried, in vain, to put him back together and resurrect him from the dead. In this way, it could be said that Horus has no "integrity".

Final note: I would also deduce that these Occult worshippers believe, mistakenly, that Jesus was the reincarnation of Horus, who's "father in heaven" was Osiris, when in reality, Jesus true father, was/is the very spirit of God and the spirit of the universe (see Jesus reframe regarding the nature of worship to the woman at the well). In my view, Jesus was "born from above", just as he instructed Nicodemus, and if his physical birth was surrounded by controversy, that is irrelevant, since his very being and essence, and fated calling to a final clash with sin and evil, was heaven sent, from above (point of incorruptible objective awareness/point of light/God-consciousness).

Back to you phil, with the rest of the story of Horus/Nimrod. Thank you.

For reference, here's a link to another thread where aspects of this vital issue are being discussed and explored.

http://letsrollforums.com/my-vatican...-t16460p2.html

Edit: Bottom line, what I'm driving at, is that the lie isn't in Jesus Christ, as the revelation of God's promise to Eve, but in Horus, who was never resurrected. So it's the inverse of what's presented in Zeitgeist, with Jesus Christ as the appropriate expression of the divine logos (God made flesh), and on the other hand, the Horus myth, which people like Bill Clinton and his family are into, among others, the final lie and the misdirection of Satan, to deflect from Christ and his authority.

I have to admit, that when I watched the program on CBC called "The Pagan Christ" my faith was for a time, shaken, but now I've come to see it in a whole new light, thanks to you phil.

What these so-called illumined innitiates believe, in error, is that Horus is the precursor, the catalyst and the foreshadowing, and that the myth of Isis and Osiris, is in this way, informative, and played a role in Jesus demonstration, as a reflection of Horus, and points to a "generative principal" (the "G" in the masonic symbol), which, when understood and appropriated, via the revealed meaning in the symbols, involves the making of men, into Gods. But the truth of the matter, is it's false, dead, and did not in fact serve as the cue for Jesus' pathway to divinity - so they are chasing a lie, who's reality and Truth, stands alone, as wholly God inspired and directed. So there is no anti-Christ in effect, in the same way that Horus isn't really a more ancient reflection of the reality, just a lie, who's aim it was to sell the truth of the prophecy given to Eve, and no doubt overheard by Satan. The "anti-Christ" is simply a type of Satan, who is in strong rebellion AGAINST the authority of Christ himself, and who's principal response to Jesus, isn't repentance and salvation, but an attempt to distort and deflect from the reality, since it is a reality which points to a whole new basis of human existance and reveals the truth about man, something which the powers that be, do not wish to see break through from above to enter into the human realm of all being and becoming. War in this sense, is the very antithesis, of Jesus' love, but his peace comes from above and from his own spirit of truth and grace, light and life, and love, not from some human hiearchy of global powers and principalities who are in effect at war with the lamb of God.

Personally I believe that the "end of evil" may reside in this issue, as a final wedge who's aim is to place a breach in their high wall, bringing their whole structure down, unto dust, while laying their branch (branch of the terrible ones) low and cutting it off, at the root and source.

Take it away phil, and I'll shut up while you do, leaving further discussion, for the end of the thread when you choose to reopen it. Thanks again. And God Bless, in Jesus' name, amen. Gee, I feel like Peter or Paul or something..

Rob Rice
aka OmegaPoint aka Headhunter

__________________
On the 11th day, of every monthhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q9nR...irdstage%2Ehtm
http://truthaction.org/

I have a question, why is it there is no historical record of any man named Jesus Christ existing during that time?

He had a different name? Wasn't really "Jesus Christ"

His historical record was destroyed?

__________________
Founding Member, WeAreChange Western Australia
http://wearechangewa.com/

NO historical record Chris? In case you haven't noticed the Roman Empire morphed itself into a "Christian Empire" through Constantine. An entire Empire changed everything about it so they could usurp this single mans name, identity, power & authority! You actually think they did this over a ghost, myth or a man who didn't ever exist?

Do you actually believe that en evil, sadistic Kingdom of pagans and Satanists would transform themselves into one named after "Christ" if he was simply a fantasy fairy tale? Or make believe? Or didn't exist?

The entire Roman Empire morphed itself into a "Christianized Empire." And did so to usurp the power and authority of this one single man on earth. This alone is a huge historical reference to Jesus Christ, that he was a real man. And once you consider the nature of the Roman Empire, that is was an Empire where they worshipped Satan, and everything opposed to God, it becomes clear exactly why the co-opted Christianity. I will go into detail on this further down on all the reasons it was co-opted. As there are many.

And besides that Chris, there is other historical records of Christ, if you wish to see them and find them. The bible is one of them and cannot be discounted. They are there. And google is your best friend!

And as Rob points out below, why is it so many Jews and no Jews alike living in Israel "converted" to Christianity? And became followers of Jesus? How could this have happened if he didn't exist? Whom were they all following? And how would this phenomena have happened if Jesus Christ wasn't a real person who walked among them? How could anyone have ever taken the 12 Apostles and the thousands of others who followed Jesus every day for 3 years, if in fact they all knew Jesus Christ had never existed? The idea that Christ never existed is ridiculous on its face. It is a total cheap shot. Furthermore much of this present day doubt of this has been the result of an extremely poorly researched movie named Zeitgeist. About the only factually accurate things in it are what he states about 9/11. And there are a few tidbits of truth in it regarding the mystery religions. But there are some grave and disturbing errors in it. He makes the claim repeatedly that the Vatican is basically the home and epicenter of Christianity. And nothing could be further from the truth. While there are no doubt many, many true believers and followers of Christ among the ranks of its 1 Billion + members, the Hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church is nothing but a cheap facade, which truly isn't all that hard to see through if one is willing to research it properly and objectively. The Hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church is just as it was before it was "Christianized." It is pagan at its core. And they worship the very same deities and false gods that the pagan Roman Caesars followed before it's "Christianization." They simply renamed these pagan gods and goddesses. As a matter of fact, the very statures and images of all the statues they have in the RCC are the very same statues of the gods they worshipped long before Christ ever even walked on Earth.

These Madonna statues and her child were set up as false idols in every nation and empire long before Christ. And the statues were of Semeramis and Nimrod, the man who married his own Mother. Thus the statues in the Vatican are not those of Mary and Jesus. They are of Semeramis and Nimrod or Osiris, killed by the god Thor, (Shem) who was also his uncle. A very clever and wise counterfeit of Lucifer.



For instance, here, above, is a statue of what is now called St. Peter. Yet this image and other statues made of this image, predate the Apostle Peter by about 1500 years. It is an image of their great god "Jupiter." I sometimes get the gods mixed up as there are so many, as well as so many different names of the same god. But I believe that Jupiter was Nimrod, also known as Osiris. He was the Father of these mystery religions. Before Rome was "Christianized", the Roman Caesars sat upon the "Throne of Jupiter." And everything they said while sitting on this throne was called; Voice of the gods speaking through Caesar: After it was "Chirstianized" they sat upon the same exact throne, and now it was called: Ex-Cathedra: Voice of God speaking through Pope.

Before pagan Rome was "Christianized" when the Roman Caesars spoke and made a decree it was called; A decree of Caesar: (dictator for life) After the co-opting of Christianity, it was then called; Pope's infalliable Dogma. (Pope or Pontifex Maximus for Life)

So it is becoming easier to see how Rome co-opted the Christian faith, disguised it, and kept practicing their wicked and false religion in secret, at the highest levels of the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church. Do you know where the Pope lives? He lives in a Palace called the Lateran Palace. Do you know where the Roman Caesars lived? In the very same Lateran Palace! Is it mere coincidence that both the Roman Caesars and the Roman Popes live in the same palace? Would it also then not follow that they run and operate the same Empire? Where does it say that when Constantine "had his vision" and became a Christian, that he now "let all the empire go?"



One will search in vain to find such statements or historical documents that when Constantine "converted" that he dissolved the Empire! No, the empire kept going, and growing; The Roman Empire never fell. It is with us to this day. Now known as the "Roman Holy See" or the "Vatican." But now they would do it under the guise of being "Christian." ("εν τούτω νίκα") Notice on top of the Lateran Palace. Those are actually the gods which we will be covering in this thread! You will find among them all the people we will be speaking of and researching and exposing. Although the gods on top of the Lateran Palace are unknown to me, I am certain that among them you will find Semeramis, Nimrod (AKA - Osiris & Mars) and Horus. And probably Mercury (AKA - Cush, Nimrods Father) and Ham also known as the great god Saturn. I know this already because I know whom they worshipped. They worshipped the same gods as Assyria, Greece, Medo-Persia, Babylon and Egypt. And many other lesser nations which were part of those respective empires. And still to this day they worship these false gods, and get the masses that adhere to Catholicism to worship them as well, by trickery and deceit. When Catholics pray to "Mother Mary's statue, they are actually praying to Semeramis, and for those able to understand it, worshipping demons, and Satan himself. Because it was her, and her son/husband, Nimrod, and his Father Ham who started these mystery religions from the beginning. And they were all based upon Lucifer or the "Light Bearer" as the head, and top god. It is a complete and total mimicry of Gods real church on Earth. A total and complete counterfeit. Co-opting Christianity allowed Rome to be the "gate-keeper" of this mighty faith, an allowed Rome to be able to twist and pervert the scriptures to mean something never intended. Now it would be the State of Rome setting the "Doctrine & Dogma" of Gods word. They would now twist it and pervert the gospel or the good news of Christ. They would do everything they could to suppress the truth. And they enforced this "Doctrine & Dogma" all throughout the Roman Empire! It was called the Inquisition. And many people wrongly believe that this was confined to Spain. But that was just one of many, all throughout the Roman Empire span through time.

The Roman Inquisition wasn't something they started, or which began, stopped, started again, etc. It was the normal order of business. It was forced onto the people. And if any deviated from this Roman doctrine and dogma, they would find themselves before the inquisition. And this was in perpetuity, all throughout the Roman Empire. And this Inquisition didn't begin when the Roman Empire was morphed into what it is today. Or when it was Christianized. It was the same under the old system where they worshipped all the false gods. With Pontifex Maximus, better known as the Pope, as the chief god on earth. Anyone who wouldn't bow before Caesar as Lord would find themselves before the Inquisition and more often than not, put to death for this or tortured. Thus the Inquisition has always been among us. It has never stopped, even to this day. The Roman Catholic Church changed the name of this office in 1965 from the "Holy Roman Office of the Inquisition" to;

(1) The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) (Congregatio pro Doctrina Fidei), previously known as the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, is the oldest of the nine congregations of the Roman Curia. Among the most active of these major Curial departments, it oversees Catholic doctrine. The CDF is the modern name for what used to be the Holy Office of the Inquisition.

Romans 1:18¶ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold **(Suppress) the truth in unrighteousness; **Parenthesis and word added for clarification;

It is interesting to note that Paul, when writing the book of "Romans" was speaking of Rome when he wrote this verse above. He knew what they were and how they would one day pervert the word of God, and suppress it an all unrighteousness. And true to form, they did indeed do this. They "held" the bible and "suppressed" it for about 1361 years. In all unrighteousness! And even when giving sermons or "the Mass", would speak in Latin, a language not known by the masses, so they couldn't even understand it or hear Gods words. Thus making them of no effect on the people. The Bible did however enjoy roughly about 330 years of copying and distribution by the early church. Even though outlawed by Rome as an ataganistic belief and religion.

The Lateran Palace with the Obelisk of Thutmosis III and (right) the annexed Basilica di San Giovanni in Laterano, from an 18th century engraving by Giuseppe Vasi.

With Constantine's vision, the Roman Empire would now do the same thing as before, only in the name of Christ! They would Conquer and Pillage. To understand this and see what his vision was and understand its meaning, see below; Although it is possible that he simply made up his entire vision, I think it is probable that he actually had this vision. It is however, clear that this vision was not from God, but from Satan. And it is easy to see know this because Constantine's vision is in complete defiance of Gods word.

(2) In hoc signo vinces is the Latin transparent translation of the Greek phrase "εν τούτω νίκα", meaning "in this sign you will conquer".

According to legend, Constantine I adopted this Greek phrase, "εν τούτω νίκα", as a motto after his vision of a chi rho on the sky just before the Battle of Milvian Bridge against Maxentius in the year 312. The early Christian symbol consists in a cross formed by the Greek letters chi (χ) and rho (ρ), the first two in the name Christ (Greek: Χριστός). The historian Eusebius states that Constantine was marching with his army (Eusebius doesn't specify the actual location of the event, but it's clearly not in the camp at Rome), when he looked up to the sun and saw a cross of light above it, and with it the Greek words "Εν Τούτω Νίκα" ("in this, be victorious!", often rendered in Latin as In hoc signo vinces). At first, Constantine didn't know the meaning of the apparition, but in the following night, he had a dream in which Christ explained to him that he should use the sign against his enemies. Eusebius then continues to describe the Labarum, the military standard used by Constantine in his later wars against Licinius, showing the Chi-Rho sign.




Cheers-
Phil

References:
(1) Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congreg...e_of_the_Faith
(2) Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_hoc_signo_vinces

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"In disquisitions of every kind there are certain primary truths, or first principles, upon which all subsequent reasoning must depend." --Alexander Hamilton

There is a historical record in the form of the Gospels and Acts. No one, including that Zeitgeist idiot, with whom I conversed at 911blogger, denies the historical authenticity of Saul of Tarsus (Paul), who was also contemporary (living at the same time) to Peter, who would have been older. And any objective look at the person of Jesus reveals a "voice" there, and a very distinct character, particularly in relation to the historically Jewish frame of reference from which he emerged. As I said, it is possible that some things got added or distorted in the process, but there's a character there, not made up. Furthermore, adding to what Phil's saying about the morphing of the Roman Empire, it hardly makes any sense whatsoever for many Jews to have adopted this faith, unto DEATH. Makes no sense, unless Jesus was indeed a real person.

Back to Isis, Osiris and Horus and the house that Satan built, who's structure has now come into view due to Bush/Cheney's ineptitude..

My thesis, though phil may take it in a somewhat different direction, is that the ancient myth was neither informative, nor authentic, and that therefore, a house divided against itself cannot stand, and the "rock of Peter", that's the testimony of Peter attesting to the authenticity of Jesus' true nature and person, something that doesn't MIX with the egyptian death cult.

For anyone who's interested in the issue of spiritual authority, I strongly recommend a book called "Spiritual Authority" by Watchman Nee http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Auth.../dp/0935008357

If anyone can fully understand it, there's a revelation there of the "wedge" and the "double-bind" I've been aluding to. The authority of God cannot be usurped by the authority of Satan, but it can be hidden or deflected by Satan's minions such that God's authority is prevented from entering the system within the framework of a human hierarchy. Not all authority is appointed by God. We must therefore, be most careful is in choosing against which power we rebel, and which to submit ourselves, and so this issue regarding the authority of the Roman Catholic Church is a sticky wicket as they say. If they speak out against Christ in any way, shape or form, or offer "direction" in the form of Luciferian symbology, in particular, that of Isis and Osiris (who's framework is in opposition to the authority of Christ), then it's clear, or, if the two are in any way mixed together, which creates confusion, then again, it's clear, and when in doubt, Jesus asked us to look at their fruits, that we would know them by their fruits..

God and God's authority, as revealed in Jesus own submission to the will of God, cannot and does not make a compromise with sin and evil. That's the final wedge of the cross. There is no evil in it, and it reveals to us, that God is an ALL GOOD God. He does not play both sides of the fence, only uses Satan at times, as the foil against which his greater Glory is made manifest, as can be seen in Jesus' exchanges with the scribes and the pharisees, and in particular, the cross.

In the final anaysis, it's an issue of authority, and the authorities, they either love God by loving Jesus as God's revelation of his love for us, or they hate him, and work continually to oppose his authority. Most of us sin, and so we tresspass against God's holiness, but there are few among us, with knowledge of God, who choose to rebel against him, an infinitely more serious offence, since it involves a Satanic principal of rebellion.

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(1) This picture depicts the Satanic "Celestial Virgin with the Sun God in her arms." ["Secret Teachings of All the Ages", by 33° Freemason, Manly P. Hall, p.XLIX]. Just a simple, cursory glance will demonstrate that this pagan "Celestial Virgin" with the "Sun God" in her arms bears a striking resemblance to the Virgin Mary holding Jesus of the Roman Catholic religion. In fact, they are one and the same.

Listen to Manly P. Hall explain this pagan Madonna and Divine Child.

"In the view of the theologian, the Madonna who gives birth to the Man Child signifies the priority of the mother aspect of Divinity ... The oval nimbus in which the figure stands, represents the glorification of the Creative Power as exemplified in motherhood. The Christ Child always symbolizes Wisdom, the Virgin Mother, Faith. The figure, therefore, declares that Wisdom, born of Faith, shall redeem the world now encircled by the serpent of evil." [Ibid.]

What the Bible says:

"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger." [Jer 7:18]

"But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. 18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine." [Jer 44:17-18]


(1) http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1866.cfm

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Rob,

Can you give me a call tomorrow about1PM my time so we can collaborate on this thread? I have some good idea on how we can tackle this together.

Lets talk before we continue this;

Thnx-
Phil

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"In disquisitions of every kind there are certain primary truths, or first principles, upon which all subsequent reasoning must depend." --Alexander Hamilton

Phil, if I don't get to work then I'm screwed, so unfortunately, I'm going to have to leave it up to you for the time being.

It would be nice to have some Freemasonry research in it also, since Freemasonry, is, in the words of Albert Pike, indistinguishable from the ancient Mystery Religions.

The whole thing represents a mammoth undertaking, but I'm glad that we got it started, and I'm happy to see your new forum beginning to really take off! "Build it and they will come"

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I've had another "revelation" so to speak regarding this issue.

From The Book of Revelation, Chapter 12


1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Interpretation:
I believe this refers to Mary (the real one) and to the birth of Jesus, where, the "great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads" refers to the seven empires of the Mystery Religions of Egypt and Babylon, which phil has I'm convinced, accurately identified.

The 12 stars in this case, refer, not to celestial objects, or to the constellations, but to the 12 tribes of Israel "above Mary's head", and the "moon moon under her feet" reveals her orientation relative to the heavens above, the "crown of twelve stars" upon her head, again, the 12 tribes of Israel.

Now, the "great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads" who "stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born" - this IMHO, represents precisely the same idea I offered in the OP, namely that "they" the Babylonian/Egyptian Mystery Occult of the Seven Empires (number 7 as Rome II being the Vatican), have, by swapping out Mary with Isis (Queen of Heaven), attempted to subsume or "swallow" Jesus, by framing him within the context of the Isis/Osiris-Horus mythology.

The follow on text, as follows:


6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

In light of these things, I encourage the inquirer to re-read the Book of Revelation with a new eye of discernment.

And I think that the 12 Tribes of Israel who were led out of bondage in the Exodus, these were not pattered AFTER the 12 Constellations and the worship of the stars set up by Horus, but were formed (differentiated) by God as the equal and opposite to that system.

The Satanic reading of the Bible, which these Occultists practise, frames these things in light of the Isis-Osiris-Horus legacy as the root and source, when the truth of the matter, is that God has used them all along merely as a foil against which to make manifest his Glory through an intentionality of fate - so they've done it with the 12 Tribes of Israel, with Mary, and with Jesus - attempted to subsume or swallow God's unfoldment within their own Mystery tradition, mostly I'm sure without realizing that they were doing, like my Minister friend who's the Woshipful Master of his Lodge, who, if confronted with this, would insist that they are nothing more, or less, than primal archetypes, but this is the lie, in so much as "faith comes by hearing", and given the way and the manner in which God made clear his plan via a historical process of differentiation and reintegration. In other words, Satan uses this framework and psychological process of "indoctrination" into the occult mysteries, as the channel or the gate by which to enter the entire system via their "secret corporate culture".

By finding and by revealing the demarcation point of differentiation, maintained with integrity throughout the Bible, even to the final clash in Revelation, something becomes rather clear IMO, which is corroborative in many ways (not all but many) with Phil's research, which has helped to bring me to this realization.

When those initiates go through all their degrees, they are taking in something not of God, but of the Evil One, who's indoctrination brings them to God-consciousness by a process of self-directed "engineering", and we cannot engineer our own salvation, since salvation must come from above, lest what is corrupt, corrupt the whole system, and so God's Kingdom is preserved, and the Lie revealed once again for what it is, an abomination to the Lord.

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