Karl Schwarz Wrong aboutPentagon Engine Part (A New Theory)

~~Merc Mercy~~ · 18 Aug 2005 , 00:12 AM

Let me say first off...I DO NOT BELIEVE A 757 HIT THE PENTAGON!

Also, I don't think a Global Hawk or a sole missile/cruise missile hit the Pentagon.

I am leaning towards an A3 SKywarrior firing an AGM or, like the planes at the WTC, a 737 firing an AGM(AIM in the case of the WTC).

Secondly, if I am incorrect about any of this info. Please inform me. Regardless of the inclination of the human ego, I do want to be wrong or mistaken about this.

I think Karl Schwarz is probably a good guy. I have traded e-mails with him a few times and think his intent is genuine. At least, I hope it is.

I have been studying and researching the parts "photographed" at the Pentagon. And apparently Karl Schwarz and unfortunately Dylan Avery and Phil Jayhan via Loose Change, are incorrect, at least about the "diffuser case". Although I also repeated this claim of a "diffuser case". It is actually a "similar-looking" part called a combustion case or chamber. (Unless myself and the people that have brought me to this conclusion are wrong.)

I also have a suspicion about "Sarah Roberts"...the person who obtained the photo of the "engine case with circular bezels". Since she came out of nowhere with it. I will elaborate on the role of this photo later in the thread.

I didn't entirely trust that Jerry Russell guy at 911 strike.com. When I saw him speak at the 911 Intl Inquiry in SF, Ca- he said he had worked for DARPA and he had teetered on the "757 may have hit the pentagon" side- so I did not trust him. But after all the searching and saving of different engine part photo's. I am seeing some validity in the photo's on his site. Especially, since THESE were THE photo's/diagrams I was looking for and really couldn't find anywhere.

Here's the thing...

I had went on a jet engine spare parts site/forum (aog-spares.com) and innocently posed questions about the engine parts at the pentagon. i wanted to get a definitive 3 party answer to the Honeywell GTCP331-200 APU. This site sells this particular APU and it's parts. So I figured they would be able to positively identify the "Tubine Disc" in the picture. I figured the same thing regarding the "diffuser case". Please read the following conversation between the admin and I. They/he deleted the thread, but what's cool is the page is still referenced whenever you type the words bezels, RB211-535, etc. in a search engine.

Regarding the "front compressor front hub assembly" or "turbine disc":

Q: Is this a component to an APU, specifically a Honeywell GTCP331-200???

A: The answer to your question is "NO" because its too big. I think what you are looking at is the first stage compressor disk to the main engine. could be a pratt & whitney PW2000 or a general electric CF6-50 motor. Hope that helps. (Obviously he wasn't 100% sure if it was a "first stage compressor disk to the main engine" of a "a pratt & whitney PW2000 or a general electric CF6-50 motor")

then... ( I was trying to hint around and eventually get to the JT8D)

Q: In the pic, this "wheel/disk" seems to have metal cleats for fan
blades-do these compression discs have fan blades(i thought they did-but i wasn't sure) and it almost appears to have a nosepiece-like device on its front. "This probably houses bearings, front oil sump and perhaps an
alternator or starter?"... (repeating the AFP article, in reference to the guy who identifed the part as not coming from a "missile")

A: yes- the fan disk has "dovetail slots" where the fan blades attach. i
assume they separated at impact. the nosepiece you see is what is called the"fan shaft". the picture shows the rear of the disk rather than the front. the shaft extends rearward and attaches to other couplings in the compressorstack. alternator, starter, and accessories are mounted on the gearbox whichis attached to the bottom of the engine.

Q: More importantly why does this wrecked engine diffuser case have
"circular bezels" in the first place if it is supposed to have triangular
ones...

A: i think what is in these pictures is the "combustion chamber."the holes
are where the fuel nozzles mount. you have to remember that the parts for all engines are not always the same. pratt & whitney as well as GE have service bulletins in order to improve engines. this may mean reworking partsby machining and welding etc to get the new configuration...you may have pictures that show before and after modification..

what exactly are you trying to prove? maybe i could give you a more finite answer rather than a long drawn out investigation.....

Q: This may be tough, but can you point out the "first stage compressor disk to the main engine" in this pic? (I posted one of those inside diagrams of the PW2000)

A: it is at the very front of the motor(left side of picture) and has the
large fan blades attached to it.

(Then he logs out and then I believe logs in as a guest. He makes few snippy sarcastic emotional comments about 9/11 and UFO's and such.)

Then...

"Guest": its very easy to identify the parts. each part has a part number
and serial number on it. get the part numbers and you can easily tell which motor they come from....

When he asked what I was "trying to prove", I posted a very detailed summary of what happened at the pentagon and that's when someone, maybe the admin, came in as a "guest" and started being sarcastic.

I told them I didn't want to get into paritsan mudslinging or conspiracy
talk. Just wanted to stick to the debate on engine components. The admin
then erased my "conspiracy theory" info and posted this:

"Our site is not a forum to discuss conspiracy theories regarding the US
government. Please refrain from doing so or the entire thread will be
deleted. Please keep the discussion related to the identification of
aircraft parts only. If you dont like our views on this subject, then by all means find a different site."

Shortly after that is when the thread was deleted.

I do believe Karl Shwarz is correct about the "front compressor front hub assembly" (turbine disc pictured here):

From the infamous missing Praxair page. It is back up, so I saved the pic.

The "case"-"combustion or diffuser?":

Pictures of "Combustion Cases" (Not only does Jerry Russell use this term, Russell Pickering I think his name is)

RB211-535:

PW2037(2000?)

GE-CF6-80C2:

This image is taken from an excellent "No 757" site, I am not sure if it is authentic. But they claim it is a "LATER MODEL CF6-8082 FROM WTC DEBRIS". In the infamous and idiotic abovetopsecret.com thread by "Catherder", in the forum discussion board, he uses this image and claims it is from the pentagon exclaiming..."See! Two Engines" (NOTE THE TRIANGULAR BEZELS)

So here is my theory...

-If this really is an RB211-535 combustion case, could it have been planted in the E-Ring BEFORE the "craft" hit?

-Or could it have been planted in the C-Ring, where the "punch out hole" and other holes are? I personally have believed that those holes in the C-Ring were caused by explosives, NOT A MISSILE, being that we haven't seen the exit-entrance holes through the E-Ring or the D-ring in between the E and C ring. I can't see a missile traveling through the E and D ring and making 3 holes(I've only seen two) in the C-ring. A missile would have exploded with the "craft" it was intended to destroy all remnants of or ~identifiable parts~(it also need to make the hole so "it" could enter neatly and so no identifiable part of it would he left hanging on the outside). Could they have planted this engine component (and maybe a 757 landing gear??) and then at the exact moment of impact, detonated explosives that were surrounding this component(s). Then the FEMA agent comes in and takes a pic, then the pic is delivered to "Sarah Roberts" for her to disseminate at the precise moment when needed.

I could be mistaken about the reported location of the "case" component, can anyone verify it's location?

Comments please.

hdhntr · 19 Aug 2005 , 13:34 PM

http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/WitnessesLink.htm

**Craig Ranke CIT** · 1 Feb 2008 , 00:34 AM

This was real research folks.

Thank you Merc Mercy.

**Craig Ranke CIT** · 1 Feb 2008 , 02:51 AM

Note the date on this post.

The A3 skywarrior theory was put to rest years ago.

**kawika** · 4 Feb 2008 , 23:24 PM

Most, if not all, aircraft parts have serial numbers. So they can keep excellent track of when and where parts are exchanged. Why hasn't any crash investigator taken note of the serial numbers during the recovery of debris? Is there even an NTSB report for the Pentagon?

Where did all the debris go? After Flight 800 crashed (blew up) , they reassembled the plane in a hangar.

The fact that there is no record available for part numbers for any aircraft lost on 9/11 is enough evidence of an inside job for me.

What an unbelievable tragedy.

18 Aug 2005 , 00:12 AM	#1
~~Merc Mercy~~ Join Date: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 906 Threads: 89 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Karl Schwarz Wrong aboutPentagon Engine Part (A New Theory) Let me say first off...I DO NOT BELIEVE A 757 HIT THE PENTAGON! Also, I don't think a Global Hawk or a sole missile/cruise missile hit the Pentagon. I am leaning towards an A3 SKywarrior firing an AGM or, like the planes at the WTC, a 737 firing an AGM(AIM in the case of the WTC). Secondly, if I am incorrect about any of this info. Please inform me. Regardless of the inclination of the human ego, I do want to be wrong or mistaken about this. I think Karl Schwarz is probably a good guy. I have traded e-mails with him a few times and think his intent is genuine. At least, I hope it is. I have been studying and researching the parts "photographed" at the Pentagon. And apparently Karl Schwarz and unfortunately Dylan Avery and Phil Jayhan via Loose Change, are incorrect, at least about the "diffuser case". Although I also repeated this claim of a "diffuser case". It is actually a "similar-looking" part called a combustion case or chamber. (Unless myself and the people that have brought me to this conclusion are wrong.) I also have a suspicion about "Sarah Roberts"...the person who obtained the photo of the "engine case with circular bezels". Since she came out of nowhere with it. I will elaborate on the role of this photo later in the thread. I didn't entirely trust that Jerry Russell guy at 911 strike.com. When I saw him speak at the 911 Intl Inquiry in SF, Ca- he said he had worked for DARPA and he had teetered on the "757 may have hit the pentagon" side- so I did not trust him. But after all the searching and saving of different engine part photo's. I am seeing some validity in the photo's on his site. Especially, since THESE were THE photo's/diagrams I was looking for and really couldn't find anywhere. Here's the thing... I had went on a jet engine spare parts site/forum (aog-spares.com) and innocently posed questions about the engine parts at the pentagon. i wanted to get a definitive 3 party answer to the Honeywell GTCP331-200 APU. This site sells this particular APU and it's parts. So I figured they would be able to positively identify the "Tubine Disc" in the picture. I figured the same thing regarding the "diffuser case". Please read the following conversation between the admin and I. They/he deleted the thread, but what's cool is the page is still referenced whenever you type the words bezels, RB211-535, etc. in a search engine. Regarding the "front compressor front hub assembly" or "turbine disc": Q: Is this a component to an APU, specifically a Honeywell GTCP331-200??? A: The answer to your question is "NO" because its too big. I think what you are looking at is the first stage compressor disk to the main engine. could be a pratt & whitney PW2000 or a general electric CF6-50 motor. Hope that helps. (Obviously he wasn't 100% sure if it was a "first stage compressor disk to the main engine" of a "a pratt & whitney PW2000 or a general electric CF6-50 motor") then... ( I was trying to hint around and eventually get to the JT8D) Q: In the pic, this "wheel/disk" seems to have metal cleats for fan blades-do these compression discs have fan blades(i thought they did-but i wasn't sure) and it almost appears to have a nosepiece-like device on its front. "This probably houses bearings, front oil sump and perhaps an alternator or starter?"... (repeating the AFP article, in reference to the guy who identifed the part as not coming from a "missile") A: yes- the fan disk has "dovetail slots" where the fan blades attach. i assume they separated at impact. the nosepiece you see is what is called the"fan shaft". the picture shows the rear of the disk rather than the front. the shaft extends rearward and attaches to other couplings in the compressorstack. alternator, starter, and accessories are mounted on the gearbox whichis attached to the bottom of the engine. Q: More importantly why does this wrecked engine diffuser case have "circular bezels" in the first place if it is supposed to have triangular ones... A: i think what is in these pictures is the "combustion chamber."the holes are where the fuel nozzles mount. you have to remember that the parts for all engines are not always the same. pratt & whitney as well as GE have service bulletins in order to improve engines. this may mean reworking partsby machining and welding etc to get the new configuration...you may have pictures that show before and after modification.. what exactly are you trying to prove? maybe i could give you a more finite answer rather than a long drawn out investigation..... Q: This may be tough, but can you point out the "first stage compressor disk to the main engine" in this pic? (I posted one of those inside diagrams of the PW2000) A: it is at the very front of the motor(left side of picture) and has the large fan blades attached to it. (Then he logs out and then I believe logs in as a guest. He makes few snippy sarcastic emotional comments about 9/11 and UFO's and such.) Then... "Guest": its very easy to identify the parts. each part has a part number and serial number on it. get the part numbers and you can easily tell which motor they come from.... When he asked what I was "trying to prove", I posted a very detailed summary of what happened at the pentagon and that's when someone, maybe the admin, came in as a "guest" and started being sarcastic. I told them I didn't want to get into paritsan mudslinging or conspiracy talk. Just wanted to stick to the debate on engine components. The admin then erased my "conspiracy theory" info and posted this: "Our site is not a forum to discuss conspiracy theories regarding the US government. Please refrain from doing so or the entire thread will be deleted. Please keep the discussion related to the identification of aircraft parts only. If you dont like our views on this subject, then by all means find a different site." Shortly after that is when the thread was deleted. I do believe Karl Shwarz is correct about the "front compressor front hub assembly" (turbine disc pictured here): From the infamous missing Praxair page. It is back up, so I saved the pic. The "case"-"combustion or diffuser?": Pictures of "Combustion Cases" (Not only does Jerry Russell use this term, Russell Pickering I think his name is) RB211-535: PW2037(2000?) GE-CF6-80C2: This image is taken from an excellent "No 757" site, I am not sure if it is authentic. But they claim it is a "LATER MODEL CF6-8082 FROM WTC DEBRIS". In the infamous and idiotic abovetopsecret.com thread by "Catherder", in the forum discussion board, he uses this image and claims it is from the pentagon exclaiming..."See! Two Engines" (NOTE THE TRIANGULAR BEZELS) So here is my theory... -If this really is an RB211-535 combustion case, could it have been planted in the E-Ring BEFORE the "craft" hit? -Or could it have been planted in the C-Ring, where the "punch out hole" and other holes are? I personally have believed that those holes in the C-Ring were caused by explosives, NOT A MISSILE, being that we haven't seen the exit-entrance holes through the E-Ring or the D-ring in between the E and C ring. I can't see a missile traveling through the E and D ring and making 3 holes(I've only seen two) in the C-ring. A missile would have exploded with the "craft" it was intended to destroy all remnants of or ~identifiable parts~(it also need to make the hole so "it" could enter neatly and so no identifiable part of it would he left hanging on the outside). Could they have planted this engine component (and maybe a 757 landing gear??) and then at the exact moment of impact, detonated explosives that were surrounding this component(s). Then the FEMA agent comes in and takes a pic, then the pic is delivered to "Sarah Roberts" for her to disseminate at the precise moment when needed. I could be mistaken about the reported location of the "case" component, can anyone verify it's location? Comments please.

19 Aug 2005 , 13:34 PM	#2
hdhntr Privileged Join Date: 27 May 2004 Posts: 5,385 Threads: 135 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/WitnessesLink.htm __________________ It was an inside job http://www.deceptiondollar.com/TempArt/Unmask.jpg

4 Feb 2008 , 23:24 PM	#5
kawika Moderator Join Date: 10 Feb 2006 Location: homeontherange Posts: 225 Threads: 89 Thanked 26 Times in 16 Posts	Most, if not all, aircraft parts have serial numbers. So they can keep excellent track of when and where parts are exchanged. Why hasn't any crash investigator taken note of the serial numbers during the recovery of debris? Is there even an NTSB report for the Pentagon? Where did all the debris go? After Flight 800 crashed (blew up) , they reassembled the plane in a hangar. The fact that there is no record available for part numbers for any aircraft lost on 9/11 is enough evidence of an inside job for me. What an unbelievable tragedy. __________________ LIFE! LIBERTY! PROPERTY!

1 Feb 2008 , 00:34 AM	#3
Craig Ranke CIT Thinker Join Date: 4 Feb 2006 Location: southern cali Posts: 166 Threads: 20 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This was real research folks. Thank you Merc Mercy.

1 Feb 2008 , 02:51 AM	#4
Craig Ranke CIT Thinker Join Date: 4 Feb 2006 Location: southern cali Posts: 166 Threads: 20 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Note the date on this post. The A3 skywarrior theory was put to rest years ago.