Meet Agent Lloyd A. England (Pentagon Plant)

~~Merc Mercy~~ · 11 Jan 2006 , 13:22 PM

Quote:

Lloyd, Survivors' Fund Project Survivor Story

Lloyd still keeps a torn dollar bill signed by a stranger and dated September 11, 2001. It marks a day he has struggled to survive for two years. But Lloyd’s story is different from most other Survivors’ Fund clients. His life and livelihood was changed by the path of Flight 77 before it hit the Pentagon.

Lloyd, 69, began the morning of September 11, 2001 like most days, driving his taxi cab. A passenger in Rosslyn told him what had happened at the World Trade Center so he turned on his radio and headed home. As he approached the Navy Annex, he saw a plane flying dangerously low overhead. Simultaneously, the plane struck a light pole and the pole came crashing down onto the front of Lloyd’s taxi cab, destroying the windshield in front of his eyes. Glass was everywhere as he tried to stop the car. Another car stopped and the driver helped move the heavy pole off Lloyd’s car. As they were moving the pole, they heard a big boom and turned to see an explosion. The light pole fell on Lloyd and he struggled to get up from underneath, wondering what had happened.

Police started to arrive on the scene and forced Lloyde to move. They urged the bystanders to leave the area in case there was another explosion. Lloyde was forced to abandon his car in the middle of the street to begin the long walk home. As he made his way on foot up Route 395, he met a man who had been working at the Pentagon. Walking side by side they found a dollar bill lying in the road. They picked it up, tore it in half, each signed one half and traded with each other. Parting ways each took half of a torn dollar with a stranger’s name on it. Lloyde still keeps this tangible reminder of his experience on 9/11.

Lloyde says the hardest part of his journey since 9/11 has been trying to survive without money. He realized once he got home the morning of September 11th that he would not be able to work without his car—it is his livelihood. He was without a vehicle for two months until he purchased a used car with the help of American Red Cross funds. They were the only people to come to his aid in the beginning until his daughter came across the Survivors’ Fund. With the help of his case manager and financial support from the Fund, he has been able to afford his monthly expenses, something he struggled with after 9/11. “I’m not accustomed to people helping me,” he says. “I’m amazed that there are people there just to do that.”

Lloyde tends to keep his feelings to himself. He is quiet, respectful and humble when speaking of his experiences. When asked if it helps him to talk about September 11th, he says, “I don’t know. There are things I’d like to forget.” The remnants of September 11, the reminders are all over for him but he concludes, “surviving hasn’t been easy, but it can be done.”

http://www.survivorsfundproject.org/...ents/lloyd.asp

From Here:

http://www.survivorsfundproject.org/...sSpotlight.asp

Questions:

-How is he able to come to a stop, with a light pole on his cab, gather himself, while another driver stops, gets out of his car, runs over to "Lloyd", presumably asks him if he's ok, helps Lloyd out of the car or while he gets out on his own, then the both of them begin to move the lampost AND THEN there is an explosion from the plane?

-Why did he need to leave the car there? There was absolutely nothing wrong with his car other than the windshield. Why didn't he move it? Why did he need a new one? And why did he get a new one from the American Red Cross?

He left it on a highway, not a street

Let's really see what happened...the photographic evidence:

Click here for enlarged image

Click picture to enlarge

SO WHY IS THE TAXI MOVED????

Here you can see the guard rail, no stonewall. You can see it even more when the camera man pans back, shown in the beginning of Loose Change 2:

Now for the Taxi itself...

NOT A SINGLE SCRATCH/DENT ON THE HOOD OR THE ROOF FROM THE VERY HEAVY, 45 FT TALL LAMPOST!!!

Click for enlarged image

Other questions to ponder:

-*If he was travelling on a highway, and he came to an abrupt right turn stop. Why are there no skid marks?*

-In the close-up of the taxi, does it appears there are no white divider lines under and behind the taxi?

-Why does there appear to be chalk line lining up with the base of the lampost?

I tried the phone number. Disconnected using a 202 area code. Nothing shown in Yahoo yellow pages for a "Capitol Taxi Cab", either.

Comments?

Thanks to Brad Mayeux

**Jon Simon** · 11 Jan 2006 , 16:21 PM

Tremendous work, Merc. Starts to answer a lot of questions I had last summer on this. The windshield of that cab would not have been the only damage from a fallen lamp post strike. That hood would and should have had significant damage as well I believe...but the car would likely have still been in running condition.

Since it was apparently moved, Mr. England's story doesn't jive with the facts. Perhaps we should contact the Red Cross and report him for fraud.

Jon

**publius_valerius** · 11 Jan 2006 , 20:23 PM

Quote:

Simultaneously, the plane struck a light pole and the pole came crashing down onto the front of Lloyd’s taxi cab, destroying the windshield in front of his eyes. Glass was everywhere as he tried to stop the car. Another car stopped and the driver helped move the heavy pole off Lloyd’s car. As they were moving the pole, they heard a big boom and turned to see an explosion.

So let me get this straight ... the plane clipped the lamppost at 400 mph, which made the lamppost crash into the car. The driver brought the car to a stop and then got out of the car. Another driver, immediately responded to the situation and gave assistance to him help lift it off of the car ......

..... and all of this occured during the timeframe that the jet would have covered the 100 or so yards to the building while flying at 400 miles per hour. In other words in less than 3 seconds.

They were able to do all of this in three seconds or less.

Seeing as how the jet made impact and produced an explosion as they were moving the lamppost !!!!!

Who writes this shit ???

~~Merc Mercy~~ · 12 Jan 2006 , 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinister Dick Cheney

Guys this angle of investigation is a mistake and not worth pursuing.

You are crazy Mr Vice President. Did you review the information or just glance over it?

Quote:

For one thing a poor black cab driver is a sympathetic victim/witness.

Exactly. Along with tearing a dollar bill in half with a stranger. Sounds like scenes right out of a TV movie of the week. Firemen are sympathetic victim/witnesses, so what's your point?

Quote:

He might've moved the cab somewhat after the lamp post falling and after whatever exploded into the 'gon most likely a drone plane bomb.

The fact that you even admit that you believe the cab was moved says a lot. You know the cab and lamp post are positioned exactly the same way. Why would he do all this?

Quote:

For another thing the lamp post could easily have smashed across his windshield and then bounced off over the car roof or in front of the cab.

Did you read the article I posted? It doesn't sound like it Dick. Read it again. It DIDN'T "smash across his windshield and then bounced off over the car roof or in front of the cab." Read it again, then look at his cab, closely.

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The white line under the cab is one of the highway lane lines it's a 3-lane highway.

Yes, that is correct. You admit it was moved, so what's your point?

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Visible damage to windshield and close location of lamp post is enough.

Say what? How so?

Quote:

The phone number on the Capitol Cab was most likely working on 9/11 and if the cab co. went out of business since then that's not suspicious.

Maybe. You have any proof? So far I have proof it doesn't exist. Which means it may have not existed.

Quote:

There is nothing suspicious about this guy or the damage to his cab.

WHAT? Are you looking at the same pictures I am? How do you come to this conclusion?

Quote:

I suggest this thread be deleted there are much better mysteries to focus on and spend time and effort investigating. This one is a dead end IMO.

That's pretty harsh to suggest a thread be deleted. Jon and Publius seem feel differently. I feel this thread should stay exactly where it's at and let viewer interest take it where it does.

**Jon Simon** · 12 Jan 2006 , 04:02 AM

I think this is a useful area of inquiry. I spent a number of nights last summer trying to make sense of the lamp-posts/flight trajectory issue. No matter what I did, I couldn't make a lot of things fit. I finally determined for myself it wouldn't fit because there were additions, omissions or alterations to the scene.

The cab windshield always puzzled me the most. Looking at the windshield, if a lamp post hit it and bounced off, that means it would have:

1) hit the edge of the hood where it meets the windshield denting it considerably or
2) hit the windshield and then quite probably hit the hood or quarterpanel edges at some point then the ground.

The hood shows no sign of any impact. The odds it hit the windshield and then overflew the hood missing it completely are unlikely to me. It could not hit the windshield causing it to smash and then "bounce off". The only way it could have bounced off with enough "bounce" in my mind is for the windshield to have held firm. It can't be both ways. The windshield to me looks like something was possibly thrown thru it.

I don't know for sure but at the very least, this is another mystery at the Pentagon. Maybe we can now add the "pristine hood" to the "pristine lawn", Merc.

Jon

**Sinister Dick Cheney** · 12 Jan 2006 , 05:59 AM

Obviously he couldn't have done everything in three seconds more like 30 seconds maybe. Now I would be interested in learning Merc if that cab company really existed in the d.c. area code on 9/11 if you can prove it never existed then you've got something really conclusive here. Is d.c. all one area code which would explain why there's no (202) in front of the phone number on the cab door? As for the lamp post yes it's possible it could have fallen smack dab onto his windshield and bounced over or off.

I'm somewhat curious about no skid marks on the road but we don't have video of the entire highway and I have no idea which way he was going or turned after the alleged lamp post crash. Something knocked the lamp posts over either wings of an aircraft or they were blown up covertly. If this guy is a Pentagon stooge I'd be amazed simply because there are much better stooges with much more credibility who could've been used.

And as for tearing the dollar bill in half with a stranger that's actually something I could see people doing in real life not just on TV. It's been done in movies with money and playing cards so it's popular culture. But a cabbie who is un-nerved might actually do something such as that. I've been sold solid on lots of your better evidence than this Merc it just seems contrived. And not necessary. Not really courtroom quality IMO.

**publius_valerius** · 12 Jan 2006 , 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinister Dick Cheney

Obviously he couldn't have done everything in three seconds more like 30 seconds maybe.

That is the biggest clue that this entire "cab driver/lamppost" tale is fabricated. It might be plausible had this accident occured several miles away from the Pentagon ... but it literally occured on the highway running directly in front of it. No way they could respond that fast to a surprise item just appearing in the roadway. It would literally have to be one fluid motion, with our 69 year old driver slamming on the brakes, while opening the door, throwing it into park, sprinting around to the hood, and converging with another equally alert and also sprinting driver who responded to the random event just as quickly, and the two (without discussion) immediately organizing a spontaneous removal operation.

The site where this accident supposedly occured is at a maximum 300 yards from the building. The "plane" would have already impacted the building before they even brought their vehicles to a complete stop.

There is no way that all of these events unfolded in that short window of time, with the flight still in the air, so that they could turn to hear the impact and see the explosion with the lamp post in their hands.

Quote:

Now I would be interested in learning Merc if that cab company really existed in the d.c. area code on 9/11

That is going to be difficult to prove indeed. The actual District of Columbia itself is not very large, but it is surrounded by lots of bedroom communities and suburbs that are stretched across three States (Virginia, Maryland, and West. Va.) Were that company to exist it could be registered in any one of those countless municipalities.

Quote:

if you can prove it never existed then you've got something really conclusive here. Is d.c. all one area code which would explain why there's no (202) in front of the phone number on the cab door?

D.C. is all one area code 202 ...

however, many businesses in other area codes do extensive business in D.C. For instance, 240, 410, 443, 667, and 301, are all area codes just outside D.C. in Maryland ... 304 is W. Virginia ... 703, 571 is Northern Virginia. All of these area codes are used in municipalities that are less than an hour away from the District.

While it is remote, it is still possible that "Capitol Cab III" is a company from one of these surrounding areas that does shuttle services from Reagan Airport (It is just around the block from there) to the hotels in any on of those other surrounding towns.

But I agree that it would most likely be a 202 listing since no other area code is listed on the door. It would seem that any non-202 would distinguish itself as such.

Quote:

As for the lamp post yes it's possible it could have fallen smack dab onto his windshield and bounced over or off.

This is very true. It is possible to hit the windshield and the windshield only. Not only that, but lampposts are made of lightweight cheap aluminum (exact same stuff as fenceposts on aluminum fences and little league baseball bats) they really aren't incredibly heavy. That thing probably does not even weight 125 pounds. It would not "cave in the roof or hood" or likely even leave visible damage since that weight is distributed over a 20 foot length of post. It is very possible that it bounced off of the vehicle.

That said, front windshields on cars are made to withstand impacts from fairly dense objects, and the size of that hole indicates something extremely dense and very large in area punctured it. To me, it looks like a bowling ball was thrown through it.

There are also signs of two different stress points. You may have to enlarge the image but there is the obvious hole and then just above and to the left of it (at about the 11 o'clock position) there is seperate and distinct concave damage to the windshield.

Quote:

I'm somewhat curious about no skid marks on the road but we don't have video of the entire highway and I have no idea which way he was going or turned after the alleged lamp post crash.

That is spinning our wheels. Not every single braking manuever will leave "skid marks." That has more to do with the condition of the road, condition of the tires, and the temperature of both. And as for the "chalk outline" that can be explained as a scratch from the base of the post dragging across the roadway. However, I do find it peculiar that it would be an arching scratch, and that it would be going away from the building.

Quote:

Something knocked the lamp posts over either wings of an aircraft or they were blown up covertly. If this guy is a Pentagon stooge I'd be amazed simply because there are much better stooges with much more credibility who could've been used.

I would be much more interested in seeing the base post foundations that they were "torn" out of. If they were ripped off of their bases - I want to see those bases. Unfortunately I don't think anyone took pictures of those - instead we have detached posts (with no traceable home) laying in the middle of the street. Which may point to planted "evidence."

Quote:

And as for tearing the dollar bill in half with a stranger that's actually something I could see people doing in real life not just on TV. It's been done in movies with money and playing cards so it's popular culture. But a cabbie who is un-nerved might actually do something such as that.

While that may be possible, it still seems outlandish that it would be a spontaneous occurance. I mean, seriously, who has that frame of mind to spontaneously forge their own personal and introspective memorial amidst pure chaos ?

Memorials stem from reflection, time, introspection, distance, and evaluation.....Something I can't imagine anyone intrinsically knowing to do at the spur of the moment. This "breaking bread" anecdote seems way too sensationalized, overly dramatic, implausible, and honestly, very "flight 93-ish."

Quote:

I've been sold solid on lots of your better evidence than this Merc it just seems contrived. And not necessary. Not really courtroom quality IMO.

From what I have seen, Merc is the top investigator on these boards. While this specific post would not in and of itself, "prove in totality that 9/11 is a lie" - it does demonstrate that this particular antecdote is a lie.

The more lies that are exposed - the more we have in our arsenal. Even if they are only the corrallary ones....

-P.V.

**OzBoy** · 12 Jan 2006 , 11:33 AM

Quote:

As he approached the Navy Annex, he saw a plane flying dangerously low overhead. Simultaneously, the plane struck a light pole and the pole came crashing down onto the front of Lloyd’s taxi cab, destroying the windshield in front of his eyes. Glass was everywhere as he tried to stop the car. Another car stopped and the driver helped move the heavy pole off Lloyd’s car. As they were moving the pole, they heard a big boom and turned to see an explosion. The light pole fell on Lloyd and he struggled to get up from underneath, wondering what had happened.

Here's another way to look at it ;

The above statement is in fact accurate. Lloyd is driving along and sees our mysterious white plane (of BBC footage fame) flying extremely low and heading towards the Pentagon. At the same time, the orchestrators of the Pentagon hit fire charges underneath the light poles that are inside the "flight path" but are well clear of the white plane thundering overhead. (the poles had to come down somehow in front of rush hour traffic)

Lloyd's brain mistakenly links the low flying plane to the light pole coming down.

The very first light pole "hit by the plane" fell onto the road and part of it smashed the cab's windshield.

The white plane flies straight over the Pentagon, lands at the airport (or banks sharply away) and very soon after a missile impacts the western wall of the Pentagon.

This would explain scattered reports of some kind of aircraft and similtaneous explosions seen by some witnesses.

Some will say, "hang on! people would have seen this "white plane" fly over, land at the airport etc etc ..." My guess is, they more than likely did.

Remember that guy getting interviewed in front of the Pentagon saying he saw no plane but a "missile with wings"? Thats what he saw, he was also telling the truth.

Just another possibility to throw at you ...

**nevermind** · 12 Jan 2006 , 14:30 PM

Theme: Car/Motor Home
Phone: (202) 387-6200 Diamond Cab Comp.
Website: http://www.commuterpage.com/taxi.htm
Other Contact: (202) 546-2400 Capitol Cab

You should try and speak to this guy he might be useful. Or send him a copy of lc2e....

~~Merc Mercy~~ · 12 Jan 2006 , 15:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevermind

Theme: Car/Motor Home
Phone: (202) 387-6200 Diamond Cab Comp.
Website: http://www.commuterpage.com/taxi.htm
Other Contact: (202) 546-2400 Capitol Cab

You should try and speak to this guy he might be useful. Or send him a copy of lc2e....

What connection does Diamond Cab have to Capitol Cab or Lloyd England?

On the page you show, it has...

Capitol Cab Co-Op Association, (202) 546-2400 -which is disconnected.

11 Jan 2006 , 16:21 PM	#2
Jon Simon Moderator Join Date: 5 May 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,471 Threads: 308 Thanked 94 Times in 50 Posts	Tremendous work, Merc. Starts to answer a lot of questions I had last summer on this. The windshield of that cab would not have been the only damage from a fallen lamp post strike. That hood would and should have had significant damage as well I believe...but the car would likely have still been in running condition. Since it was apparently moved, Mr. England's story doesn't jive with the facts. Perhaps we should contact the Red Cross and report him for fraud. Jon

12 Jan 2006 , 04:02 AM	#5
Jon Simon Moderator Join Date: 5 May 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,471 Threads: 308 Thanked 94 Times in 50 Posts	I think this is a useful area of inquiry. I spent a number of nights last summer trying to make sense of the lamp-posts/flight trajectory issue. No matter what I did, I couldn't make a lot of things fit. I finally determined for myself it wouldn't fit because there were additions, omissions or alterations to the scene. The cab windshield always puzzled me the most. Looking at the windshield, if a lamp post hit it and bounced off, that means it would have: 1) hit the edge of the hood where it meets the windshield denting it considerably or 2) hit the windshield and then quite probably hit the hood or quarterpanel edges at some point then the ground. The hood shows no sign of any impact. The odds it hit the windshield and then overflew the hood missing it completely are unlikely to me. It could not hit the windshield causing it to smash and then "bounce off". The only way it could have bounced off with enough "bounce" in my mind is for the windshield to have held firm. It can't be both ways. The windshield to me looks like something was possibly thrown thru it. I don't know for sure but at the very least, this is another mystery at the Pentagon. Maybe we can now add the "pristine hood" to the "pristine lawn", Merc. Jon

12 Jan 2006 , 05:59 AM	#6
Sinister Dick Cheney Free Mind Join Date: 20 Apr 2005 Location: Secret Bunker Posts: 2,596 Threads: 452 Thanked 38 Times in 25 Posts	Obviously he couldn't have done everything in three seconds more like 30 seconds maybe. Now I would be interested in learning Merc if that cab company really existed in the d.c. area code on 9/11 if you can prove it never existed then you've got something really conclusive here. Is d.c. all one area code which would explain why there's no (202) in front of the phone number on the cab door? As for the lamp post yes it's possible it could have fallen smack dab onto his windshield and bounced over or off. I'm somewhat curious about no skid marks on the road but we don't have video of the entire highway and I have no idea which way he was going or turned after the alleged lamp post crash. Something knocked the lamp posts over either wings of an aircraft or they were blown up covertly. If this guy is a Pentagon stooge I'd be amazed simply because there are much better stooges with much more credibility who could've been used. And as for tearing the dollar bill in half with a stranger that's actually something I could see people doing in real life not just on TV. It's been done in movies with money and playing cards so it's popular culture. But a cabbie who is un-nerved might actually do something such as that. I've been sold solid on lots of your better evidence than this Merc it just seems contrived. And not necessary. Not really courtroom quality IMO.

12 Jan 2006 , 14:30 PM	#9
nevermind Reader Join Date: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 67 Threads: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Theme: Car/Motor Home Phone: (202) 387-6200 Diamond Cab Comp. Website: http://www.commuterpage.com/taxi.htm Other Contact: (202) 546-2400 Capitol Cab You should try and speak to this guy he might be useful. Or send him a copy of lc2e....