The Pentagon Timeline Debate Thread

[Terral]

Greetings to All:

The Official 911Commission Report (911CR), Government/CNN and Arlington County After-Action Report (ACAAR) Timelines contain a myriad of fabrications and omissions part of the DoD "Inside Job" Cover-Up Operation. The DoD has micromanaged the content of these bodies of disinformation in an attempt to cover their 'inside job' tracks and give support to their Official Bushie Administration/DoD “Flight 77 Hit The Pentagon” Cover Story with no basis in reality whatsoever. 911CR and ACAAR information has been purposely sanitized from each Report and includes many misstatements of fact to sow confusion among 911Truth Investigators working to reconcile the disparity between the accepted Pentagon Timelines. This thread is dedicated to resolving all of those contradictions by careful examination of all the evidence from all available sources to determine the precise sequence of events for this Pentagon Case. The Official Timelines in question are found in these locations:

CNN Timeline >> here.

ACAAR (Pg 200 = Appendix 1 Page 1-1) >> here.

911CR >> here (all page numbers are from PDF Counter).

My current 8:00 AM to 10:38* AM Pentagon Timeline is as follows (red denotes explosion):

1. 8:10 AM American Airlines Flight #77 tail number never assigned = never took off (link).
2. 9:20 AM FBI is notified that Flight 77 has been hijacked
3. 9:25 AM Radio-controlled A-3 Jet diverted from "Northern Vigilance" Exercise (Laura's work = #1 in Addendum)
4. 9:31:39 AM A-3 Jet Flyover Plane Missile Attack at Column 14 on South Flight Path splitting Route 27 Cloverleaf
5. 9:31:39 AM Citgo Security Camera #7 catches A-3 Jet Shadow
6. 9:31:39 AM Pole #1 uprooted by Missile ‘bow shockwave’ for A-3 Jet to propel into Lloyd’s taxi cab
7. 9:31:39 AM A-3 Jet Plane takes down Pole 2
8. 9:31:39 AM Missile Strikes Wedge One Column Line 14 of E-Ring Wall
9. 9:31:39 AM Battery powered Navy Clock stops ticking
10. 9:31:40 AM A-3 Jet clips Poles 3, 4 and 5 with starboard wing during brief right-hand turn.
11. 9:31:40 AM Missile L-Pill explodes at D-Ring Slab for second to create 9-feet hole in rear C-Ring wall
12. 9:31:40 AM On Station Foam 161 firemen running north are injured near Heliport
13. 9:32 AM Terry Cohen runs from construction trailer to see "Just Smoke"
14. 9:32 AM FAA Reports Aircraft crashes into west side of Pentagon
15. 9:32 AM Double Tree Security Video sees Missile Strike Explosion
16. 9:32 AM Secret Service suddenly rushes Bush from Florida school library
17. 9:32 AM The firefighters are suddenly ordered out of WTC 1
18. 9:32 AM The New York Stock Exchange is ordered closed
19. 9:32 AM The takeover of Flight 93 begins
20. 9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet crashes between Column Line 8 and 13 at base of E-Ring wall
21. 9:36:27 AM Clock stops in Room 3E452, located near 'hinge' of collapsed floors
22. 9:36:27 AM Terry Cohen hears "Terrible Explosion"
23. 9:36:29 AM Lloyd and his helper turn around to witness Small Jet "Big Boom" crash
24. 9:37 AM Foam Unit 161 firemen try run farther away to escape escalating fire and heat
25. 9:38 AM Captain Defina (Reagan shift commander) orders response by Foam Unit 331 and SERV-329
26. 9:41 AM Captain Defina enters the Pentagon’s south parking lot with Engine 105 on his bumper
27. 9:42 AM Massive explosion throws fire and smoke from the entry hole as DoD attempts to bring E-Ring roof down
28. 9:42 AM Lloyd England experiences his 'third' explosion
29. 9:43 AM Captain Defina orders Foam Unit 331 to set up where Engine 161 established a hydrant supply of water
30. 9:43 AM Massive Impact Area Explosion
31. 9:45 AM Massive Impact Area Explosion
32. 9:55 AM Captain Gibbs evacuates Impact Area
33. 9:55 AM Firefighters interrupted operations, abandoned equipment, shut off hoses, and ran to protected areas
34. 9:58 AM Huge Explosion
35. 10:00-10:15 AM Explosions continue shaking the Pentagon in DoD vain attempts to bring E-Ring roof down
36. 10:09:00 Impact Area Explosion
37. 10:12:56 Impact Area Explosion
38. 10:13:04 Impact Area Explosion
39. 10:13:08 Impact Area Explosion
40. 10:15 AM Chief Schwartz orders full evacuation over warnings of approaching hijacked aircraft
41. 10:15:16 Impact Area Explosion
42. 10:15 AM E-Ring Impact Area Roof Collapses
43. 10:38 AM Chief Schwarts sounds all clear, ending first evacuation
44. 10:38 AM Firemen reengage the Pentagon fire
--------------------------

On Station Foam 161 firefighters injured at 9:31:39 AM attack = here , http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...pic=17081&st=20

revision: Second A-3 Jet Attack moved up to 9:36:27 (Room 3E452 Clock stopped)= http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...tAttackTime.jpg

addition: Citgo Camera 7 Security camera catches 9:31:39 AM A-3 Jet Shadow ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter.../CITGO_CLIP.gif ). Time is exactly 10 minutes fast to the second.

Federal Aviation Administration 9:32 AM Aircraft Crash Timeline entry >> http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa5.pdf

addition: 9:32 AM Double Tree Video data ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wUXXgfN2fM , http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c266/Ter...AMExplosion.jpg )

addition: Poles clipped by A-3 Jet = http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...3/Pole2pic.jpg

9:42 and 9:58 AM Explosion Data = http://whatreallyhappened.com/911timeline.html

9:43 AM Explosion Data = http://www.loosechange911.com/img/explosion.jpg

9:45 AM Explosion Data = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ_g1buWhAA

10:09 Explosion data >> http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?...sp=137&Trace=on

10:12 to 10:15:16 Explosion data = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WefPzgxvfS4

E-Ring Roof collapse @ 10:15 = http://www.archive.org/details/cbs200109110954-1036
--------------------------


This Timeline Chart shows the Official Impact Flight Path in red with the actual 9:31:39 AM Missile Flight Path in green. The 9:31:39 AM A-3 Flyover Jet (black flight path) mirrored the Official Impact Path running diversion for the Missile accelerating from behind on a parallel course. Lloyd had his eye on the painted-up A-3 Jet like everybody else and never saw the Missile or the impact. Lloyd briefly saw the A-3 Jet that knocked down the poles, but in truth the ‘breakaway’ light pole #1 was snapped off from contact with the Missile Bow Shockwave ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...loydsShock.jpg ). The Remote-Controlled A-3 Jet (blue flight path) took the North of Citgo Flight Path to strike the Pentagon at 9:36:27 AM. The released DoD frames show the Missile on final approach ( http://www.911research.wtc7.net/pent...dodvideos.html = upper right) and striking the Pentagon 5 feet off the ground at Column Line 14.



Note the white vapor trail following the Missile directly into the E-Ring wall. A schematic of the famous Frame1 image shows . . .



. . . our Missile cannot be larger in diameter than just under two feet. Since the nose of the Missile is at 5 feet ‘and’ the clearance underneath is ‘twice’ the diameter, ‘then’ the Missile must be smaller than 2 feet. The equation looks like this:

½X + 2.5X = 5 feet
X + 5X = 10 feet
6X = 10 feet
X= 20 inches

The A-3 Jet misfire coincided with the 9:31:39 AM Missile Strike that knocked down the five light poles with the starboard wing/engine during the brief right-hand turn on the South Of Citgo Flight Path, so Pole #1 landed on Lloyd’s taxi cab. The Citgo Security Camera #7 ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...CITGO_CLIP.gif = lower right) caught the shadow of the A-3 Jet at exactly 9:31:39 AM, when you allow for the system being exactly 10 minutes fast.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...i?ArtNum=78448

Lloyd, 69, began the morning of September 11, 2001 like most days, driving his taxi cab. A passenger in Rosslyn told him what had happened at the World Trade Center so he turned on his radio and headed home. As he approached the Navy Annex, he saw a plane flying dangerously low overhead [9:31:39 AM A-3 Flyover Jet]. Simultaneously, the plane struck a light pole and the pole came crashing down onto the front of Lloyd’s taxi cab [no the bow shockwave from missile uprooted the pole], destroying the windshield in front of his eyes. Glass was everywhere as he tried to stop the car [a minute goes by]. Another car stopped and the driver helped move the heavy pole off Lloyd’s car [5 minutes go by]. As they were moving the pole, they heard a BIG BOOM and turned to see an explosion [9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet Attack]. The light pole fell on Lloyd and he struggled to get up from underneath, wondering what had happened.

Lloyd saw the painted-up A-3 Jet and was in the process of removing the light pole from his taxi with some help (during upper picture time), when along comes the 9:36:27 AM A-3 Jet crashing at the base of the E-Ring wall between Column Lines 8 and 13. That "Terrible Explosion" from Terry Cohen's testimony ( http://video.google.nl/videoplay?doc...51276150910098 ) transformed the "Just Smoke" E-Ring wall environment into the fiery inferno you see in the bottom picture from Lloyd's "Big Boom." Lloyd’s testimony is corroborated by Steven McGraw driving in the next lane:

http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoud.../witnesses.htm

Steven McGraw >> "I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars." McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. "The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. I saw it crash into the building," he said.

Alan Wallace and Mark Skipper (story) were injured in the original 9:31:39 AM Missile Strike (Page 26 = A-4 ACAAR) in the first attack. Captain Defina is the Reagan National shift commander in charge and the ACAAR provides and exact timeline of his decisions to send specific Engines to specific locations. Foam Unit 331 is specifically ordered to set up operations directly in front of the E-Ring entry hole, but not according to the ACAAR where this Engine is never mentioned once. We gain that information from another article here:

http://www.public-action.com/911/rescue/nfpa-article/

Captain Defina drove onto the heliport and directed Foam Unit 331 to set up there, where Fort Myer Rescue Engine161 had established a hydrant water supply.

The ACAAR has intentionally omitted Captain Defina’s orders to place Foam 331 with Fort Meyer Rescue Engine 161 in this key "Impact Area" location (#29 on Timeline). The ACAAR is caught in a suspicious misstatement of the facts, saying,

A-5 (Page 27) >> Help was already on the way from several directions as units sped toward the source of the smoke plume, not toward a specific street address. ACFD Truck 105 reached the scene first, followed shortly by fire and medical units from several Arlington County stations.

The ACAAR refutes its own testimony from one page earlier that clearly said,

A-4 (Page 26) >> At 9:38 a.m. on September 11, ONLY ONE FIRE CREW, Foam 161 of the Fort Myer Fire Department, knew the exact location of the crash site.

If only Foam 161 knew the exact position of the crash site, and Truck 105 showed up ‘after’ Captain Defina (9:41 AM), then obviously Truck 105 arrived ‘after’ On Station Fort Meyer Foam 161 ( http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...1-PENTAGON.jpg ) that is NEVER mentioned in this ACAAR Report again. The fact that we must run to other Action Reports to even hear one word about Foam Unit 331 should raise your suspicions right through the roof. Engine numbers and times have purposely been changed and distorted to tell a very different story than what actually took place at the Pentagon on 9/11. The DoD does not want you to make the Rescue Engine 161 and Foam Unit 331 connection, because if you examine ‘their’ testimony very carefully, then you will realize we have been looking at ‘two attacks’ all along. You have distorted 911CR, Official CNN/Government and Firefighter Pentagon Timelines, because the DoD used muscle to change the information on ‘all’ the accepted timelines to give credibility to their “Flight 77 Hit The Pentagon” Cover Story nonsense. The ACAAR says the E-Ring roof collapsed at 9:57 AM (Page 200) and the CNN Timeline says 10:10 AM, but both of those times are discredited by the evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WefPzgxvfS4

Watch the Fox5 News Report and watch the ‘time’ by the temperature on the logo. We start at 10:12 and move through to 10:15 amid all these massive explosions. Both the 911CR and ACAAR use the term "explosion" only six times and never use the term "explosions" even once. The 911CR never uses the term in connection to the Pentagon Case and all ACAAR uses of 'explosion' are connected directly to their bogus 9:38 AM Flight 77 crash. We have video footage verifying that a smaller plane hit the Pentagon witnessed by Lloyd as a "Big Boom" ( http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...i?ArtNum=78448 ) and Terry Cohen as a "Terrible Explosion" ( http://video.google.nl/videoplay?doc...51276150910098 ) . At frame 00:16 you clearly see “61” on the back of Engine 161 from Station 61 ( http://www.fmfd161.com/ ) in position beside yellow Foam Unit 331. Stop the counter at 00:24 and examine the shadow on the fellow entering the frame from the left. The reporter and Michael Kelly will agree that 20 minutes have passed since the attack, so you are looking at shadows from just about 10:00 AM. At frame 00:41 note the rescue workers have set up operations in the very long E-Ring wall shadow, because again, the time is only 10:00 AM. We have firemen at the Impact Area, so apparently Captain Gibbs has not yet given the 9:55 AM evacuation order. Michael Kelly’s “9:36:27 AM small plane” testimony begins at 01:50 (and this video evidence = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=schV0rKCRwA ) corroborating the testimony of Lloyd the taxi driver, Steven McGraw, and the firemen from on station Foam 161 injured in the 9:31:39 AM Missile Strike.

The evidence for a 9:32 AM Pentagon attack is overwhelming and presented well in Barbara Honegger’s work entitled:

http://blog.lege.net/content/Seven_H..._September.pdf

THE PENTAGON ATTACK PAPERS

Seven Hours in September: The Clock that Broke the Lie
Appendix to THE TERROR CONSPIRACY
by Jim Marrs
Publication date, Sept. 6, 2006

Everyone here needs to bookmark that page and take the time to sit down and read every word. My focus here is on the evidence pointing directly to a 9:32 AM Missile Strike. She comes straight out of the gate saying,

Barbara >> The Pentagon was first attacked at 9:32 am, much earlier than the 9/11 Commission and official cover story claim. (In this summary of evidence, the more precise time of 9:31:40 am is "rounded up" for ease of reference.)

You are looking right down the throat of the most important 5 minutes pertaining to this Pentagon case, because getting this part right enables you to realize we have been looking at ‘two attacks’ (missile and A-3 Jet) where the Jet inadvertantly ran diversion for the 9:32 AM missile strike. The highlights of Barbara’s evidence looks like this:

Barbara Honegger >> Converging Lines of Proof of a 9:32 Violent Event at the Pentagon on September 11, well before the Official Story says anything hit the building:

Multiple standard−issue, battery−operated wall clocks on the walls of the area of the Pentagon attacked on 9/11−including one in the heliport just outside the west face−were stopped between 9:31 and 9:32−1/2 by a violent event, almost certainly a bomb or bombs inside the building and/or in a truck or construction trailer parked right outside the west face . . . The Navy posted the stopped heliport clock on an official website and another of the stopped clocks is in the 9/11 display at the Smithsonian Institution.2 These are just some of the west section Pentagon clocks that stopped between 9:31 and 9:32−1/2 on September 11.

The bogus 911CR cites Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) frequently throughout the Report, but they fail to mention the Official FAA Timeline ( http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa5.pdf ) says, "0932 ATC AEA reports aircraft crashes into west side of Pentagon." The mountain of 9:32 AM First Explosion evidence can be seen in Post #2 here ( http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...howtopic=16133 ).

Everyone is encouraged to challenge any part of my Pentagon Timeline with arguments supported by ‘evidence’ in your rebuttals and counterproposals. Additions to my original 44-point Timeline will be numbered 1.1, 1.2, and 2.1 and 2.2 respectively. All points successfully changed by any member will be edited to reflect your new evidence with an asterisk (*) placed by that time and your name entered (below timeline and above chart) for a job well done.

GL in the debate,

Terral

[Terral]

Greetings to All:

Here we go again with another Page 2 Thread about to move over to Page 3 that nobody can seem to agree with or refute one way or the other. If anything appears off, then please quote from my work and show us what you have from the Pentagon evidence. Thank you very much,

GL,

Terral

[Phil Jayhan]

My clock at work is 9 minutes ahead of my cell phone clock. And 16 minutes ahead of my computer clock.

These are some obvious issues with your analysis Terral. And many of the clocks you post as evidence are not even digital.

Lets face it Terral, most clocks in the world, are not aligned with all other clocks, and show abstract times.

Can you admit this in your analysis?

Cheers-
phil

[Terral]

Hi Phil:

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

My clock at work is 9 minutes ahead of my cell phone clock. And 16 minutes ahead of my computer clock.

Nobody said one thing about ‘your’ clocks. We are talking about military clocks and a Quartermaster-calibrated clock inside the Pentagon maintained to keep perfect time to the second. The Army clock outside in the Heliport (on left) was a bit slow, but they are not as meticulous about keeping perfect time like the Navy. BTW, my brother served on the USS Iwo Jima (pic = a.k.a - Iwo Pig) in the 1970’s and early 80’s and my nephew is a journalist in the US Navy today; and my brother corrected me when I thought the Pentagon clocks might have the wrong time. He says every Navy Clock keeps time within a Quartermaster’s duty section and is replaced if the time is off by even one second. The clock inside the Navy Command Center is no exception to that rule. The idea that the Navy keeps time like Phil is ridiculous. :0)

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

These are some obvious issues with your analysis Terral. And many of the clock you post as evidence are not even digital.

No sir. This is an issue with Phil ignoring the evidence to show up to this debate with arguments based upon how he maintains his clocks. :0) The Navy keeps perfect time on all their clocks even down to the smallest ships where the Quartermaster calls out time in “. . . 3, 2, 1, mark” fashion on the intercom to keep everyone on exactly the same time. The Department of Defense uses Navy time (story) to also keep perfect time and that is the ‘time’ kept at the Pentagon. The Navy Clock was knocked off the wall to stop ticking at exactly 9:31:39 AM. We know that the explosion was massive, because the Army clock outside the Pentagon at the Heliport location was also knocked off the wall showing a 9:32 time. Barbara Honegger is a Senor Military Affairs Journalist at the Navy Postgraduate School, the Navy’s advanced science, technology and national security affairs university ‘and’ she draws the same conclusions about the ‘time’ (9:32) of the first explosion at the Pentagon from a variety of sources in her famous paper (link).

At what time does the Federal Aviation Authority say the aircraft crashed into the west side of the Pentagon? Hmmmmm? :0) Come on, Phil, can you take one guess? Will the way that Phil allows his clocks to keep different times change the fact that the Official FAA Timeline (link) of 9/11 events also shows the same exact 9:32 time? :0) No. What about the Doubletree security video released in 2006? What are the chances that this security footage also shows the same 9:32 time (pic) if my analysis is wrong? :0) What kind of evidence does Phil have that all of this proof for a 9:32 First Explosion (my thread) at the Pentagon is all wrong? Oh yeah, these clocks are not digital . . . Both the Navy and Army clocks are Chicago Lighthouse Quartz Clocks selected for accuracy and not windup toys . . .

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

Lets face it Terral, most clock in the world, are not aligned with all other clocks, and show abstract times. Can you admit this in your analysis?

Let’s face the fact that the Pentagon was first attacked at 9:31:39 AM and that Phil has no case for anything. What are you trying to say? What is your thesis for when the Pentagon was first attacked and where is evidence to support ‘your’ time? :0) Please try again when you ‘do’ have a case for something.

GL,

Terral

[Phil Jayhan]

Terral,

Spoiler:

Phil Does Not Have A Case For Anything . . .
Hi Phil:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan
My clock at work is 9 minutes ahead of my cell phone clock. And 16 minutes ahead of my computer clock.

Nobody said one thing about ‘your’ clocks. We are talking about military clocks and a Quartermaster-calibrated clock inside the Pentagon maintained to keep perfect time to the second. The Army clock outside in the Heliport (on left) was a bit slow, but they are not as meticulous about keeping perfect time like the Navy. BTW, my brother served on the USS Iwo Jima (pic = a.k.a - Iwo Pig) in the 1970’s and early 80’s and my nephew is a journalist in the US Navy today; and my brother corrected me when I thought the Pentagon clocks might have the wrong time. He says every Navy Clock keeps time within a Quartermaster’s duty section and is replaced if the time is off by even one second. The clock inside the Navy Command Center is no exception to that rule. The idea that the Navy keeps time like Phil is ridiculous. :0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan
These are some obvious issues with your analysis Terral. And many of the clock you post as evidence are not even digital.

No sir. This is an issue with Phil ignoring the evidence to show up to this debate with arguments based upon how he maintains his clocks. :0) The Navy keeps perfect time on all their clocks even down to the smallest ships where the Quartermaster calls out time in “. . . 3, 2, 1, mark” fashion on the intercom to keep everyone on exactly the same time. The Department of Defense uses Navy time (story) to also keep perfect time and that is the ‘time’ kept at the Pentagon. The Navy Clock was knocked off the wall to stop ticking at exactly 9:31:39 AM. We know that the explosion was massive, because the Army clock outside the Pentagon at the Heliport location was also knocked off the wall showing a 9:32 time. Barbara Honegger is a Senor Military Affairs Journalist at the Navy Postgraduate School, the Navy’s advanced science, technology and national security affairs university ‘and’ she draws the same conclusions about the ‘time’ (9:32) of the first explosion at the Pentagon from a variety of sources in her famous paper (link).

At what time does the Federal Aviation Authority say the aircraft crashed into the west side of the Pentagon? Hmmmmm? :0) Come on, Phil, can you take one guess? Will the way that Phil allows his clocks to keep different times change the fact that the Official FAA Timeline (link) of 9/11 events also shows the same exact 9:32 time? :0) No. What about the Doubletree security video released in 2006? What are the chances that this security footage also shows the same 9:32 time (pic) if my analysis is wrong? :0) What kind of evidence does Phil have that all of this proof for a 9:32 First Explosion (my thread) at the Pentagon is all wrong? Oh yeah, these clocks are not digital . . . Both the Navy and Army clocks are Chicago Lighthouse Quartz Clocks selected for accuracy and not windup toys . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan
Lets face it Terral, most clock in the world, are not aligned with all other clocks, and show abstract times. Can you admit this in your analysis?

Let’s face the fact that the Pentagon was first attacked at 9:31:39 AM and that Phil has no case for anything. What are you trying to say? What is your thesis for when the Pentagon was first attacked and where is evidence to support ‘your’ time? :0) Please try again when you ‘do’ have a case for something.

GL,

Terral

This post of yours is a good reason why many here do not like you, including myself. All I made was an observation, and your reply is off the charts and shows you want to start a small war over it.

I can make a case. I can easily make the case that your a simple jerk. I have many evidences to this. And what I think constitutes proof.

You delve into conspiracy theory Terral. I already know a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon, and that's enough for me. And with that the government story is shown to be a lie. You cannot prove your theory, it is a theory, and only a theory.

All I did was to show a weak link in your "timeline." The fact that you use broken clocks to establish this timeline. You don't know those clocks were accurate. You cannot prove it. Plain and simple.

I also doubt very much your motives in being here or anywhere else. Your really not interested in the truth. Is all you want to do is to start fights, and arguments, and long winded never-ending debates where you can grandstand your ego. Where you can stroke your ego, and if lucky, get others to stroke it for you as well.

Your reply to me above is but a grand example of what I just stated. Why couldn't you have simply answered my question or observation in a nice courteous manner Terral? Why? Because what I said above is the basic truth about you. It's not about the truth. It is about your ego. And about being right, and about your need to engage in a never ending argument with all who will be suckers enough to try and dialogue with you.

You cannot prove the clocks were or are accurate. Any more than you can prove that an A3 Sky Warrior struck the Pentagon. Thats a conspiracy theory Terral. But I can indeed easily convince people all day long that a commercial Boeing 757 did NOT strike the Pentagon.

I think I have also made a good case on why it is fruitless for anybody to enter into your little boxing ring and enter into eternal argument with you over anything. Because that's what your hoping for.

Personally, I don't think anything hit the Pentagon. No plane, no missile, no A3 Sky Warrior. I think all the damage was done by pre-planted explosives, which is why that part of the Pentagon was closed for remodeling. And also think that all of the plane parts were simply salted. But can't prove it, so I simply stop with that which I think is proveable, or that which I think is obvious to any reasonable minds.

But am done here for now, as I have made a case for a few things now. And will rest my case and let others decide for themselves.

Cheers-
Phil

BTW - I might as well say that I think that the CIT Team has probably got the best working theory of what did happen at the Pentagon. I think Craig and Aldo have done due diligence and are more than likely spot on.

[Terral]

Hi Phil:

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

This post of yours is a good reason why many here do not like you, including myself. All I made was an observation, and your reply is off the charts and shows you want to start a small war over it.

First of all, Phil is once again attacking ‘my person’ (like here) on my Pentagon Thread without having a case for anything, which is par for the course around here. Secondly, I am here to present and defend ‘the’ 911Truth without regard for making any friends. Thirdly, most of the activity in this Pentagon Forum since 9/1/08 (by JOHN316) has been from me and Phil, so you are speaking for yourself in making bold claims about ‘many’ and their likes and dislikes. Phil is willing to waste our time with nonsense about grilled cheese sandwiches hitting the Pentagon, because he also does not care what hit the Pentagon at 9:32 AM, or 9:38 AM or any other time. Right? Of course.

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

I can make a case. I can easily make the case that your a simple jerk. I have many evidences to this. And what I think constitutes proof.

LOL. Phil is playing admin, moderator and a member with no case and breaking Board Rules by attacking ‘my person’ and not the substance of my ‘case.’ Where is it written that I must agree with Phil to become one of very few members posting in this Pentagon Forum for almost 2 months now? Here is the deal for Phil, in case you are not paying attention: Look down the Pentagon Board right now and tell me how many explanations that Phil is defending right now? The answer is Zero, but I have the three threads atop the Board and all you can do is attack Terral. Move over to Page 2 and tell us how many Pentagon OP thesis papers you are defending right now as we speak? The answer again is Zero, but there is my "Flight 77 Never Crashed At The Pentagon" Thread (here) with Phil's 'one-liner' reply (here) with your same "I think" recitations about what 'did not' hit the Pentagon here and I was threated with banning here on my very first thread to boot. :0)

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

You delve into conspiracy theory Terral. I already know a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon, and that's enough for me. And with that the government story is shown to be a lie. You cannot prove your theory, it is a theory, and only a theory.

No, Phil. You are just another DoD Counterintelligence/Disinformation Operative like the Loose Change Brats, Killtown and Webfairy at 911Movement.org, Michael Anderson (Painter) over at PilotsForTruth.org, and Richard Gage and Bill over at AE911Truth.org and the rest of the fake 911Movement running in place without one care for what really hit the Pentagon. My Opening Post thesis papers and claims and conclusions are supported 100 percent by THE EVIDENCE that Phil is unwilling to ‘quote >>’ and prove right or wrong using whatever he calls credible evidence. Go ahead and cite anything from ‘my work’ and try to prove one thing wrong. I double-dare you. :0)

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

All I did was to show a weak link in your "timeline." The fact that you use broken clocks to establish this timeline. You don't know those clocks were accurate. You cannot prove it. Plain and simple.

Barbara Honegger uses the same clocks in her famous paper (here) under the subtitle of “Seven Hours in September: The Clock that Broke the Lie.”

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

I also doubt very much your motives in being here or anywhere else. Your really not interested in the truth. Is all you want to do is to start fights, and arguments, and long winded never-ending debates where you can grandstand your ego. Where you can stroke your ego, and if lucky, get others to stroke it for you as well.

The Pentagon Attack Papers

The San Francisco Chronicle commemorated the 100th anniversary of The Great Earthquake of 1906 with a series of front−page articles headed by a single icon−a charred clock frozen at 5:12 am, the exact moment "The Big One" hit. #1 A century after that devastating event, the stopped clock serves as both the ultimate evidence and the symbol that "captures it all."

Again, almost 100 years later, clocks frozen in time at the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001 both "capture it all" and are the ultimate evidence that shatters the "Official Lie" of what happened that terrible morning.

The Pentagon was first attacked at 9:32 am, much earlier than the 9/11 Commission and official cover story claim. (In this summary of evidence, the more precise time of 9:31:40 am is "rounded up" for ease of reference.)

Where is Phil’s evidence that Barbara Honegger is wrong and having the same 9:32 AM First Explosion explanation told by the stopped clocks?? :0) Where is Phil’s argument against the FAA Timeline that says the aircraft crashed into the west side of the Pentagon at 0932 or 9:32 AM? Phil is not addressing one thing in any of my work and he ignores the same conclusions of people like Barbara Honegger the very same way, but I hear he has a grilled cheese theory that is perpetually under development. :0)

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

Your reply to me above is but a grand example of what I just stated. Why couldn't you have simply answered my question or observation in a nice courteous manner Terral?

You have the admin, moderator authority to do anything you want around here, but do not have any control over the content of member posts simply writing ‘our’ 911Truth arguments the way ‘we’ see fit, so long as we abide by the COC guidelines that apply to everyone. Phil has already let the cat out of the bag that he does not like me, which is all fine and dandy, so let’s not pretend for one minute that we are on the same side of these 911Truth debates. Why did Phil decide to attack my person rather than address our common areas of agreement in my work from the three Opening Posts appearing atop your Pentagon Forum that has grinded to a halt from non-activity for months now?

I should think that you would want us to present ‘our’ Pentagon explanations in this Forum, unless you intend on driving me out of here too. :0) My Opening Posts are presented in a courteous manner, but I take exception to admin/mod authoritarian/dictator types like you harassing lowly members rather than addressing the substance of our 911Truth explanations. Where is Phil’s supported argument for one thing against anything in my Opening Post? :0) You seem to think a 9:32 AM first explosion/attack is impossible, when that is exactly what the FAA Timeline says from the opening paragraph of my “First Pentagon Explosion” Opening Post here. What are you saying, Phil? Are you saying the Official FAA Timeline is wrong and not a credible authority to cite in these debates? :0)

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

Why? Because what I said above is the basic truth about you.

Sticks and stones, Phil, as if anyone should care about what Phil thinks about Terral. Attacking ‘members’ and not their ‘arguments’ is flaming and writing ‘off’ the topic of discussion, when you have this personal problem that seems more important than explaining ‘your’ arguments for ‘the’ 911Truth one way or the other. The Opening Post of this thread contains more ‘supported’ arguments using third-party references than any other post in this Forum and you very well know it. And yet, you waste time and effort spinning your wheels about broken clocks, as if THAT is the only witness pointing to a 9:32 AM first explosion. No sir. The Navy ‘and’ Army clocks stopping at 9:32 AM represent just two of MANY witnesses all saying the same exact thing, which I presented ‘again’ to you in the recent post ‘and’ which you chose to ignore yet again. BTW, I did contact the manufacturer of the Navy Clock to determine that “If the hands are not spinning around, then THAT is the right time that the clock stopped ticking.” I also contacted to Smithsonian Institute to speak to representatives saying the hands were indeed intact and not spinning around and the time is exactly 9:31:39 AM and not 9:38 AM like the ACAAR says.

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

It's not about the truth. It is about your ego. And about being right, and about your need to engage in a never ending argument with all who will be suckers enough to try and dialogue with you.

No sir. This is about Phil and his ego, when all of the evidence agrees 100 percent with me. :0) Again, this Board is far too slow for anyone to actively engage in any debate on any Pentagon Topic, unless he wants to write back and forth between the admin/mod super-ego guy that runs this place, which anyone can see by simply looking down the Pentagon Forum Board. I have been a member here since September of 2007 and have only 68 posts including this one, so do the math and try to make your silly case. The only reason I began writing in this Forum again is because Lord Tsukasa (here and Soldier (here) began writing on my “This Is What Really Happened . . .” thread (here) and for some silly reason I thought their posts deserved a thoughtful reply.

Two of my other Pentagon Papers were sent to the top of the Board, because as yet nobody had made the attempt to correct any errors in my explanation, or agree one way or the other, which just happens to be the same for Omega’s “The Pentagon Attack Papers, by Barbara Honegger” Thread (here) too. How many other people (almost nobody will even read this but Phil) see a pattern here? :0) The only three threads on Page 2 of Phil’s Pentagon Board all center upon the 9:32 AM First Explosion/Crash at the Pentagon for which Phil here says I have no case. :0) This is really hilarious. A real 911Truther is not allowed to simply share the fruits of his years of labor on these related 9/11 Topics, because this is all about ego and Phil still has no case for anything at all for what hit the Pentagon at 9:32 or any other time. :0)

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

You cannot prove the clocks were or are accurate. Any more than you can prove that an A3 Sky Warrior struck the Pentagon. Thats a conspiracy theory Terral. But I can indeed easily convince people all day long that a commercial Boeing 757 did NOT strike the Pentagon.

Again, all of my explanations are backed by ‘evidence’ if Phil would like to ‘quote >>’ anything and present a case for something else. Nonsense about what ‘did not’ hit the Pentagon can include Rudolph the Red-nosed Raindeer, Ronald McDonald and Elvis . . . and your silly grilled-cheese sandwich. Boasting about what ‘did not’ hit the Pentagon is not going to bring one inside-job bad guy to justice, which is the purpose of whining about what ‘did not’ hit the Pentagon in the first place. I explain how the Loose Change Brats and Killtown are DoD Ops in this Prison Planet Post (here) and you can add Phil to the list, because he cares even less about what really hit the Pentagon that his Loose Change and 911Movement DoD Op counterparts. Guess what, Phil? This is a 9/11 Conspiracy Theory Website and you profess to believing 9/11 was an ‘inside job.’ Right? This is the Pentagon Forum where we are supposed to be posting ‘our’ 9/11 Pentagon cases using the evidence. Right? Okay then. The evidence says the Pentagon was first attacked at 9:32 AM. Deal with it or make a case for something else. Nobody is served by what ‘did not’ hit the Pentagon, so stop with the DoD Op disinformation bullony and grilled cheese. :0)

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

I think I have also made a good case on why it is fruitless for anybody to enter into your little boxing ring and enter into eternal argument with you over anything. Because that's what your hoping for.

More Bullony and grilled cheese from Phil. My case mirrors that of Barbara Honegger and includes MUCH MORE, so stop stroking your own ego and start making your Pentagon Case for what ‘did’ hit the Pentagon at 9:32 AM. Good luck, because the DoD handlers do not offer up any kind of support like that and you very well know it. In fact, I am a bit surprised that your handler allows you to write on this ‘9:32 First Attack’ thread at all. And no, what Phil ‘thinks’ is irrelevant to this Pentagon Debate, unless you have some kind of credible evidence . . .

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

Personally, I don't think anything hit the Pentagon. No plane, no missile, no A3 Sky Warrior.

Again, the fact that you run a site on the internet does not give Phil all knowledge on what hit the Pentagon at 9:32 or 9:38 or at any other time. Shouting ‘no’ a thousand times will change nothing about what caused all the explosions at the Pentagon, when we have hundreds of people right there who saw a ‘plane’ hit the Pentagon like Don Wright (here) and Michael Kelly (here). These people were THERE and have no reason to LIE with nonsense about what ‘did not’ hit the Pentagon like Phil and Killtown and Webfairy and Dylan Avery and Richard Gage, so on and so forth . . . :0)

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

I think all the damage was done by pre-planted explosives, which is why that part of the Pentagon was closed for remodeling.

What is all the ‘I think’ commentary in the world worth? Nothing. This side of the debate is getting about tired of reading your ‘I think’ posts that attack my person and do NOT even contain one third-party link to support your opinions based upon Phil’s ego, as if anyone should give any weight to a guy that cares more about what ‘did not’ hit the Pentagon than anything else. Your problem is that we do have Military Jet parts scattered all over the west side of the Pentagon that match up to a retrofitted A-3 Jet, just like Karl Schwarz has been saying (link) from the beginning.

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

And also think that all of the plane parts were simply salted. But can't prove it, so I simply stop with that which I think is proveable, or that which I think is obvious to any reasonable minds.

Again, what Phil thinks is meaningless drivel posted on my Pentagon explanation that ‘is’ supported by a TON of evidence. The guy with the ego problem is the one making all of these “I think” comments using no evidence to support anything, because Phil and Killtown and Dylan Avery and Richard Gage and all people running the fake 911Movment Charade are more concerned about what ‘did not’ hit the Pentagon than simply addressing the ‘evidence’ one way or the other.

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

But am done here for now, as I have made a case for a few things now. And will rest my case and let others decide for themselves.

In other words, what “Phil thinks” is a case for something, when he cares only about what ‘did not’ hit the Pentagon. Since the topics on this Board are not even moving, then you and a handful of your helpers will be the only ones reading anything. The fact is that all of my arguments (there are minor errors in the OP of this thread: kudos to anyone able to point them out) in my posts will remain standing, because my explanations ‘are’ supported by the evidence and all the ‘I think’ testimony in the world amounts to nothing at all.

GL in the debate, if you ever decide to actually join in,

GL again,

Terral

[SoldierOfTheLord]

Oh my gosh Terral, you're a jerk. You are just a plain old jerk. Dang.



---Even I am sick of seeing this same stuff over and over. When you present a case - present it once - and then just discuss it - you dont have to present it 65 times. If people disagree, they disagree, let's not get jerky about it - dang.

[Phil Jayhan]

Spoiler:

Terral,

Spoiler:

Phil Does Not Have A Case For Anything . . .
Hi Phil:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan
My clock at work is 9 minutes ahead of my cell phone clock. And 16 minutes ahead of my computer clock.

Nobody said one thing about ‘your’ clocks. We are talking about military clocks and a Quartermaster-calibrated clock inside the Pentagon maintained to keep perfect time to the second. The Army clock outside in the Heliport (on left) was a bit slow, but they are not as meticulous about keeping perfect time like the Navy. BTW, my brother served on the USS Iwo Jima (pic = a.k.a - Iwo Pig) in the 1970’s and early 80’s and my nephew is a journalist in the US Navy today; and my brother corrected me when I thought the Pentagon clocks might have the wrong time. He says every Navy Clock keeps time within a Quartermaster’s duty section and is replaced if the time is off by even one second. The clock inside the Navy Command Center is no exception to that rule. The idea that the Navy keeps time like Phil is ridiculous. :0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan
These are some obvious issues with your analysis Terral. And many of the clock you post as evidence are not even digital.

No sir. This is an issue with Phil ignoring the evidence to show up to this debate with arguments based upon how he maintains his clocks. :0) The Navy keeps perfect time on all their clocks even down to the smallest ships where the Quartermaster calls out time in “. . . 3, 2, 1, mark” fashion on the intercom to keep everyone on exactly the same time. The Department of Defense uses Navy time (story) to also keep perfect time and that is the ‘time’ kept at the Pentagon. The Navy Clock was knocked off the wall to stop ticking at exactly 9:31:39 AM. We know that the explosion was massive, because the Army clock outside the Pentagon at the Heliport location was also knocked off the wall showing a 9:32 time. Barbara Honegger is a Senor Military Affairs Journalist at the Navy Postgraduate School, the Navy’s advanced science, technology and national security affairs university ‘and’ she draws the same conclusions about the ‘time’ (9:32) of the first explosion at the Pentagon from a variety of sources in her famous paper (link).

At what time does the Federal Aviation Authority say the aircraft crashed into the west side of the Pentagon? Hmmmmm? :0) Come on, Phil, can you take one guess? Will the way that Phil allows his clocks to keep different times change the fact that the Official FAA Timeline (link) of 9/11 events also shows the same exact 9:32 time? :0) No. What about the Doubletree security video released in 2006? What are the chances that this security footage also shows the same 9:32 time (pic) if my analysis is wrong? :0) What kind of evidence does Phil have that all of this proof for a 9:32 First Explosion (my thread) at the Pentagon is all wrong? Oh yeah, these clocks are not digital . . . Both the Navy and Army clocks are Chicago Lighthouse Quartz Clocks selected for accuracy and not windup toys . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan
Lets face it Terral, most clock in the world, are not aligned with all other clocks, and show abstract times. Can you admit this in your analysis?

Let’s face the fact that the Pentagon was first attacked at 9:31:39 AM and that Phil has no case for anything. What are you trying to say? What is your thesis for when the Pentagon was first attacked and where is evidence to support ‘your’ time? :0) Please try again when you ‘do’ have a case for something.

GL,

Terral

This post of yours is a good reason why many here do not like you, including myself. All I made was an observation, and your reply is off the charts and shows you want to start a small war over it.

I can make a case. I can easily make the case that your a simple jerk. I have many evidences to this. And what I think constitutes proof.

You delve into conspiracy theory Terral. I already know a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon, and that's enough for me. And with that the government story is shown to be a lie. You cannot prove your theory, it is a theory, and only a theory.

All I did was to show a weak link in your "timeline." The fact that you use broken clocks to establish this timeline. You don't know those clocks were accurate. You cannot prove it. Plain and simple.

I also doubt very much your motives in being here or anywhere else. Your really not interested in the truth. Is all you want to do is to start fights, and arguments, and long winded never-ending debates where you can grandstand your ego. Where you can stroke your ego, and if lucky, get others to stroke it for you as well.

Your reply to me above is but a grand example of what I just stated. Why couldn't you have simply answered my question or observation in a nice courteous manner Terral? Why? Because what I said above is the basic truth about you. It's not about the truth. It is about your ego. And about being right, and about your need to engage in a never ending argument with all who will be suckers enough to try and dialogue with you.

You cannot prove the clocks were or are accurate. Any more than you can prove that an A3 Sky Warrior struck the Pentagon. Thats a conspiracy theory Terral. But I can indeed easily convince people all day long that a commercial Boeing 757 did NOT strike the Pentagon.

I think I have also made a good case on why it is fruitless for anybody to enter into your little boxing ring and enter into eternal argument with you over anything. Because that's what your hoping for.

Personally, I don't think anything hit the Pentagon. No plane, no missile, no A3 Sky Warrior. I think all the damage was done by pre-planted explosives, which is why that part of the Pentagon was closed for remodeling. And also think that all of the plane parts were simply salted. But can't prove it, so I simply stop with that which I think is proveable, or that which I think is obvious to any reasonable minds.

But am done here for now, as I have made a case for a few things now. And will rest my case and let others decide for themselves.

Cheers-
Phil

BTW - I might as well say that I think that the CIT Team has probably got the best working theory of what did happen at the Pentagon. I think Craig and Aldo have done due diligence and are more than likely spot on.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfTheLord

Oh my gosh Terral, you're a jerk. You are just a plain old jerk. Dang.



Even I am sick of seeing this same stuff over and over. When you present a case - present it once - and then just discuss it - you dont have to present it 65 times. If people disagree, they disagree, let's not get jerky about it - dang.

Ya, I feel much the same way Kathy.This thread should be moved into post mortem, but hey, my handler told me to leave it here....

Terral, I'll tell you what. Why don't you find another forum to troll at? I really can't extend a welcome to you here any longer, and don't think anyone else here likes you all that much or at all. It isn't the material you present, but your forum etiquette. If anyone else here wants to speak on your behalf and defend your poor manners, they are free to do so, but I am asking you to simply find another place to have your endless arguments and leave this place in peace.

And others here, who feel the same revulsion about you that I do are free to chime in as well. Your just a jerk Terral. Your simply Ferral. Like a wild alley cat. And all that that implies... Terral please leave these forums willingly, and give credence to your signature, "limited posting here.." Make them REALLY limited and please leave! Your nothing but a Jerkwad,.. And all that that implies....

Cheers-
Phil