Revisited: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9-11 Firemen deaths and WTC radio problems

Phil Jayhan · 2 Nov 2010 , 02:17 AM

I would like us to revisit the issue of the missing Fireman again, armed with all of our new knowledge. I already know how they pulled part of the fireman scam, and will be writing an article about it shortly. 343 fireman go into the towers. None come out. Neither their bodies, heavy plastic coats or boots are ever recovered. They might have filmed a few fake body bags from memory, for posterity sake, but there was certainly no mass of bodies found anywhere in the debris pile at the World Trade Center. Neither the Fireman nor the 1300 people alleged to have been trapped above the 92nd at the North Tower were recovered.

But on to the Magic show. The Fireman were one of the props. And the Radio's were part of the 9/11 show. The article belo has absolutely nothing to do with anything I just shared. You will have to wait till I write an article on the Fireman. This article is about part of the 9/11 stage show, the Radios.

Enjoy-
Phil

Original link:
Thursday, September 11, 2008

9-11 Firemen deaths and WTC radio problems

A couple of months ago I bought a police scanner. Since then I've been reading up a lot on police/Fire/EMS communications. It was while researching that topic that I came across this article, which dealt with a question I had always wondered about:

Why police made it out of the World Trade Center when firefighters didn't

NEW YORK — Minutes after the south tower collapsed at the World Trade Center, police helicopters hovered near the remaining tower to check its condition. "About 15 floors down from the top, it looks like it's glowing red," the pilot of one helicopter, Aviation 14, radioed at 10:07 a.m. "It's inevitable."

Seconds later, another pilot reported: "I don't think this has too much longer to go. I would evacuate all people within the area of that second building."

Those clear warnings, captured on police radio tapes, were transmitted 21 minutes before the building fell, and officials say they were relayed to police officers, most of whom managed to escape. Yet most firefighters never heard those warnings or earlier orders to get out. Their radio system failed frequently that morning. Even if the radio network had been reliable, it was not linked to the police system. And the police and fire commanders guiding the rescue efforts did not talk to one another during the crisis.

Cut off from critical information, at least 121 firefighters, most in running distance of safety, died when the north tower fell, an analysis by The New York Times has found.

[...]

A six-month examination by The New York Times found that the rescuers' ability to save themselves and others was hobbled by technical difficulties, a history of tribal feuding and management lapses that have been part of the emergency-response culture in New York City and other regions for years. [...]

[...] Battalion Chief Joseph Pfeifer held his two-way radio to his ear. He tried to edge away from the noise in the north-tower lobby, hoping the reception would improve. Still no good. Minutes before, he stood on a street corner in Lower Manhattan and watched as American Airlines Flight 11 flew directly overhead and crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center.

Now, as the first chief to reach the building, he was sending fire companies up the stairs, including one led by his own brother, Lt. Kevin Pfeifer, who did not survive. Then he found that he had no way to speak with the rescuers starting the long climb: Once again, the firefighters were having terrible radio problems inside this high-rise building.

Now, Pfeifer tried to turn on a device known as a repeater, which had been installed at 5 World Trade Center to help solve those problems by boosting the radio-signal strength. The repeater didn't seem to be working, Pfeifer said later.

Another fire chief arriving at the trade center tried a second repeater in his department car. That did not work, either.

By 9:30 a.m., after both planes had struck, a rumor was circulating that a third hijacked plane was headed to New York. Assistant Chief Joseph Callan recalled feeling the north tower move. "I made the decision that the building was no longer safe," the chief told the Fire Department's oral-history interviewers.

"All units in Building 1," he announced over the radio at 9:32. "All units in Building 1, come out, down to the lobby. Everybody down to the lobby."

Virtually no one answered his call. It seemed that few people, apart from those standing near him, heard it. Chief Peter Hayden, who was at the scene, said: "We had ordered the firefighters down, but we weren't getting acknowledgments. We were very concerned about it."

By the department's own estimation, the radios they used, some 15 years old, were outdated.

In many instances, firefighters said they simply never got the order to leave because the radio system worked only intermittently. Firefighter Steve Modica said he tried different channels, without success, to reach a friend who had gone up ahead of him.

"It's a disgrace," he said. "The police are talking to each other. It's a no-brainer: Get us what they're using. We send people to the moon, and you mean to tell me a firefighter can't talk to a guy two floors above him?" [...]

The problems weren't all technical. It seems there were problems with the police and firefighters not to communicating with each other, for a variety of reasons.

The article ends with the story of an heroic rescue in process, right up to the end, when the 2nd tower collapses on both rescuers and evacuees. It seemed an abrupt way to end the article. But then, the story it was describing also ended abruptly.

A closer look at the more technical aspects of the radio communications problems is offered on this page at Wikipedia:

Radio communications during the September 11 attacks

The page goes into detail about many things. But there seemed to be some questions about the repeater that was supposed to boost the fireman's radios. There was some confusion over whether or not it was working. The firemen in the lobby seemed to think it was not working, but the police and other services were using it, as well as some firemen, who hadn't been told it wasn't working. The control console in the lobby may have been malfunctioning, or wasn't being operated properly:

[...] The Port Authority repeater, intended to allow communications inside the towers, did not appear to work as intended on September 11. The system, also called Port Authority Channel 30, was installed after the 1993 World Trade Center attack. News accounts said the system had been turned off for unspecified technical reasons. The Commission report said it was customary to turn the system off because it somehow caused interference to radios in use at fire operations in other parts of the city. The documentary film gives different information, with a Fire Department member from Engine 7/Ladder 1 claiming that the aircraft's impact caused the system to fail. Evidence suggests the remote control console in the lobby command was not working but the repeater was. The radio repeater was located in 5 World Trade Center. A remote control console was connected to the repeater allowing staff at the North Tower lobby command post to communicate without using a hand-held radio.

A Motorola T-1300 series remote control is built in a telephone housing. The dial is replaced with a speaker and volume control. This remote control uses a two-wire circuit to control a base station.

In a review of the logging recorder track of the Port Authority repeater, someone arrived early during the incident and began to establish a command post. From the command post in the lobby of the North Tower (1 World Trade Center), the user can be heard trying to transmit using a remote control unit. After several failed attempts to communicate with a user on the channel, the user steps through every channel selection on the remote, trying each one. The recording contains the tone remote control console stepping through all of its eight function tones. Someone says, "...the wireline isn't working," over the Port Authority channel. Something that looks like a Motorola T-1380-series remote is shown in the documentary. The fact that users pressing buttons on the remote control can clearly be heard on the logging recorder shows the transmit audio path was working. The recording does not reveal whether or not the console function tones were keying the transmitter.[19]

Some users in the North Tower lobby interpreted the remote control unit not working as a failure of the entire channel. Other fire units, not knowing the channel had failed, arrived and began using it successfully. The recordings show at least some units were successfully using the repeater to communicate inside the North Tower until the moment it collapsed.[20] The Commission report says the lobby command may not have worked because the volume control was turned all the way down or because a button that must be pressed to enable it had not been pushed. [21]

On the audio track, an outside agency, possibly in New Jersey and using a repeater, comes through the receive audio on the Port Authority Repeater 7 system. An ambulance being dispatched by the outside (non-FDNY) agency is heard. This may be what the FDNY had described as interference caused when the repeater was left enabled at all times. The distant user appears to be repeated through the system, (possibly on the same CTCSS tone as was configured in Repeater 7). This appears to be a distant co-channel user on the same input frequency as Repeater 7. It's possible that by the random button pressing, a user sent a function tone that temporarily put the base station in monitor and that's what caused the outside agency's traffic to be heard. This is unlikely because subsequent transmit function tones should have toggled the receiver from monitor back to CTCSS-enabled. [22]

[...]

At any incident of this size, there is likely to be some overlapping radio traffic. In the same way that large incidents exhaust all the firefighting vehicles and staff, the radio channel resources may become taxed to their limits. NIST says about one third of the fire department radio transmissions were not complete or not understandable. [32]

Some radio users had selected the wrong channels. For example, on the Repeater 7 channel, a unit was heard to call Manhattan dispatch and Citywide. Although the circumstances that lead to the user selecting the wrong channel are not known, this can occur when the user is trapped in darkness or smoke and cannot see the radio. Users will typically try to count steps in a rotary switch channel selector starting from one end of the switch's travel.

A communications van operated by FDNY responded to the incident. Its radio identifier was, "Field Comm." A back up van was in use on the day of the incident because the primary van was out-of-service. The back up van was destroyed and audio recordings of tactical channels used at the incident site were lost. [...]

(bold emphasis mine) It's awful to think that the repeater wasn't utilized properly because of a possible misunderstanding of the controls of the lobby equipment. But none of that can be verified, as all of the equipment was destroyed when the buildings collapsed, as well as the radio communications van that the fire department used.

Hopefully we can learn to improve the communication systems involved, both the human and technical aspects, so we can keep more of our heroes alive.

Pat has some really good poetry tributes on his blog today. Below are some of my previous 9-11 posts.

Related Links:

The 9-11 jumpers; they didn't "jump"

2,996 Tribute to Lorraine D. Antigua

Debunking Rosie O'Donnell's Stupidity

Highrise Security and our post 9-11 reality

9/11 LINKS INDEX - Victim Fraud, Media Fraud

Radio Shows - Jim Fetzer & The Real Deal:

9/11 World Trade Center Props

World Trade Center Publicity Stunts:

What does Phillipe Petit know about the hollow WTC towers?

Exif/IPTC Metadata:

EXIF Data Similarities - VERY REVEALING INFORMATION

Video: Fraudulence on 9/11

Death Certificate #0001:

Social Security Death Payments & Other SSDI Related Evidence

Social Security Death Payments for 9/11 Victims

The Hollow Towers & Pre-Demolition of WTC:

The World Trade Center Lighting & Picture History

The Elevators at WTC on 9/11 and the Trapped People:

Outrageous WTC 9/11 elevator stories exposed

Revisiting the World Trade Center Phone Calls:

Revisiting the WTC 911 calls

Fireman Actors on 9/11:

Stand In Actors on 9/11:

Flight 11 Frauds:

Flight 175 Frauds:

Triplets Separated at Birth - Edward H. Luckett, Carlton Bartels, Michael Tarrou

Flight 77 Frauds:

Flight 93 Frauds:

The 911 Jumper Frauds:

North Tower Frauds:

Pentagon Stage Props - Pentagon TV Fakery:

Pentagon Fraudulent Victims on 9/11:

Media Complicity and Fraud:

Media 9/11 Memorial Frauds:

The 9/11 Memorial Wall:

The 9/11 Victims Memorial Wall in New York City - Was it a Ruse?

9/11 & WTC Corporate Fraud:

Gatekeepers of the Alternate Media:

Jason Burmas On Fake 9/11 Victims (gatekeeper)!

Pending Research Requests from Lets Roll Members:

MISC: Great Research Links on this Material above:

Former Stickies for the Hussled Masses:

Pictures of Extra Equipment on Look-A-Like Flight 175 (109,720 Views)
911 For Dummies Thread. Video, Picture Archive of 911 (7,513,922 Views)
Targeting Laser Light Spot at the World Trade Center! (121,515 Views)
"Flight 175" WAS a Cargo/FUEL TANKER (159,126 Views)
New Photo of 767 Showing 2nd Piece of Equip / Port Engine (233,137 Views)
9/11 LINKS INDEX - Victim Fraud, Media Fraud, WTC Fraud

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**do2read** · 2 Nov 2010 , 09:33 AM

The radios were the perfect excuse.

No one with the NYFD will ever have to answer for the "deaths" because all blame goes to the radios.

Why aren't ALL of the firemen in NY part of a class action suit against Motorola and the dealer? Their lives have been endangered, and lives lost, presumably.

Why aren't ALL of the firemen's families suing, as the radios have carried all of the culpability in this matter. Where are all the ambulance chasing lawyers on this one?

Go to your local Police, and ask them who their radio dealer is, then call thm and ask them how the repeater system works, and you will instantly know this story is completely bogus. Those radios automatically switch to direct transmission mode (walkie-talkie) when the repeater is unavailable or does not respond. They can also be switched to walkie-talkie manually, some models on several sub channels. These features are often used for localized communication not meant for everyone on the system.

The radio story is a convenient and essential part of the Fireman hoax.

Great article Phil!

l

Phil Jayhan · 5 Nov 2010 , 02:44 AM

Original link:

The Day The World Shook - 93 Bombing of the WTC

Some of the material for this story was taken from the WNYF WTC issue
February 26, 1993. It started like most other days. A 4 A.M. wake up, coffee and a buttered roll while driving to work at the Manhattan Central Office. At 12:18 P.M., lunch was being served when we received a call via a street alarm box at the corner of West & Liberty Streets. At the same time Engine Company 10, whose quarters are across the street from the World Trade Center, called us via radio and reported a possible transformer vault explosion on West Street near the Trade Center.
Transformer vault (also called manhole) explosions are fairly common place in Manhattan, especially during wet weather. They're highly visible and normally generate numerous telephone calls to the Central Office. We didn't think this one was going to be any different. When Engine 10 advised us by radio they had a working fire in the Trade Center, we thought the transformer vault was located within the basement of the complex. Not a routine event, but still,it's only a transformer vault we thought.

Normally, when a fire or emergency occurs that generates numerous phone calls, the phones stop ringing once an apparatus arrives. This time the phones never stopped. That was our first hint of a major catastrophe. Soon the calls were reporting a different condition. Smoke in the towers as far up as the 33rd floor within the first 3 minutes. The ceiling collapsed in the train station that is located on the B4 level (4th level below grade) of the complex. At this point we knew it was more than a vault.

The Manhattan Central Office has 4 positions that are normally used to answer fire phones. There are 18 incoming phone lines for reporting fires or emergencies. For the next6 hours those lines rang continuously. Since calls were being received faster than we could answer them, the 911 operators were told to send the calls to any borough that had an available phone line. Very quickly all 5 borough Central Offices were being deluged with calls from stranded occupants seeking instructions. Management immediately foresaw our need for additional manpower and ordered 2 dispatchers and 1 supervisor be brought in on overtime.

Calls were being received from people in both towers and the Vista Hotel. The incident commander was unable to to operate at more than 1 location so a seperate incident was opened for each location.The first box transmitted was 69 at Vesey & West Streets. When a 10-76 was transmitted (working fire in a hi-rise), this mandated the transmission of surrogate boxes 9031 and 9032. These boxes each bring an engine, ladder, and chief from Brooklyn.

At this time the operation was in the underground garage of the complex. The incident commander, upon learning that we were receiving calls from both towers and the hotel, ordered seperate boxes transmitted for those locations. Boxes 8084 ( 1WTC), 8087 (2 WTC),300 (at West and Liberty Streets, for the Vista Hotel) were then transmitted.

With those boxes transmitted, almost every Manhattan unit below Central Park was assigned to the incident. Numerous relocations from the outer boroughs were made to cover the vacant firehouses.The incident commander, requiring additional resources, ordered the first "borough call" in 15 years. A third alarm was transmitted for Brooklyn box 3832 at Columbia and Lorraine Streets, with the responding units directed to the World Trade Center.

The blast was centered on the B2 level. It was so intense that it caused the collapse of the steel reinforced concrete floor to the floor below (B3 level), which in turn caused more collapses. Tons of debris were piled onto the B6 level floor. A steel fire door that opens to the B2 level from a stairway from the B1 level was blown off it's hinges and embedded into a wall 35 feet away.

The blast just so happened to be located at the point where it could do the most damage. It knocked out the power plant for the entire complex. This plunged into darkness over 50,000 people in the Twin Towers. No lights, no elevators, no heat, and lots of soot filled smoke. Most New York City television stations have their transmitters atop tower 1.This left only 1 TV station on the air (Channel 2 WCBS). Cable reception was not interrupted as the cable head end is fed directly from the studio and not the transmitter site. Many of the trapped occupants were listening to their radios for information. In some of the offices where televisions were located, they were watching channel 2.

One of the newscasters went on the air and advised people in the towers that if they were having trouble breathing, they should break out the glass window. This was the worst thing they could have done. By now the entire tower was filled with smoke and was acting like a 110 story smokestack. About that time I answered a call from someone seeking instructions.

By now, we were told to tell all callers to stay where they are, block all air vents with whatever rags they could find, stay calm, and wait. The caller told me he was going to break out a window. He was on the 54th floor. I advised him not to stating that there are over 500 emergency personnel on the ground and he'd kill someone with the falling debris. Not to mention the fact that the open window will allow smoke to enter the area and vent itself. He hung up and went to break the window. I advised the radio dispatcher to let the command post know to expect falling glass from the 54th floor. Later,the newscaster was "admonished" by his supervisors.

By 5 P.M. most of the incoming calls were from concerned family members of trapped civilians. This was sometimes a heart wrenching job as relatives of people who we already knew to be deceased were asking if we could find their loved ones. All we could do was give them a phone number to the information center that was set up by the police department for this purpose. Most of the other calls were from people seeking medical aide, or looking for an estimated rescue time. Given the enormity of the task of searching 110 floors and 99 elevators in each tower, there was no way I could tell them how long it would take.

At approximately 11:25 P.M., the last elevator was located, occupants were removed after being in there almost 12 hours, and the incident was declared under control at 2:25 A.M., Saturday February 27. Needless to say, lunch was served cold.

The blast's toll:*

6 civilians killed
Over 1,000 injured
105 firefighters injured - 5 admitted to local hospitals
reinforced floors almost 30 inches think blasted away on 3 levels below grade, plus a concourse level floor,leaving a crater about 150 feet in diameter at it's largest point.
On the B1 level, the operations control center of the Port Authority Police Department (and the fire command station forthe comple was heavily damaged and rendered out of service.
On the B2 level, various walls of elevator shafts and freshair plenums severely damaged, allowing smoke to enter and rise through the cores of both towers.
Numerous concrete walls destroyed or damaged.
200,000 cubic feet of water poured into the lowest grade fromdamaged refrigeration unit supplies (from the Hudson River),sewer lines, fresh domestic water lines, steam pipes, and condensate return. Water 1.5 feet deep across the B6 level.
124 parked cars destroyed, 102 damaged.
Partition walls blown out onto PATH train mezzanine.
Numerous telephone conduits collapsed from ceiling onto cars (but phone service was not cut, miraculously).
Fire alarm and public address systems out of service.
Elevators out of service.
Water cooled emergency generators shut down due to overheating when their water supply was cut. This disabled the emergency lighting.
Sprinklers & standpipes out of service.
2,500 tons of rubble removed.
Clean up effort involved 2,700 workers per day, plus a total of 160,000 gallons of cleaning fluid and 200,00 gallons of detergent.
Restoration cost: $250,000,000.
Tenants began moving back into tower 2 on March 18, 1993,tower 1 on March 29, 1993. The Vista Hotel opened early this year.

The USFA issued a report on this fire. (Requires Acrobat reader.)
Vital statistics of the Center *

Opened for tenancy: 1970
Site: 16 acres
Height of towers: 1,350 feet (2nd tallest in the world)
Floor size of towers: 1 acre
Rentable space in complex: 12 million square feet
Average daily population: 50,000 workers, 70,000 visitors
Construction: 200,000 tons of steel, 425,000 cubic yards of concrete, 43,600 windows in the 2 towers
Elevators: 99 in each tower
Below grade parking capacity: 2,000 cars (**)
Shopping: Over 60 stores on the concourse level (streetlevel) and observation deck on the 107 floor of tower 2

(*) Source: Port Authority of New York/New Jersey
(**) Since the incident, parking below grade has been restricted to employees of the Port Authority, and thevarious federal agency employees who work in the complex.There were 2 levels reserved for public parking.

**do2read** · 8 Nov 2010 , 00:18 AM

According to a FOIA obtained from the Port Authority, at the time of the 93 bombing the lower 32 floors of the North Tower were empty.

Except for the Telephone Company, the lowest 18 floors of the South Tower were empty.

This does not count the merchants at the Plaza and Concourse levels.

But as far as office space is concerned, the bottom of both towers was still empty more than 20 years after their opening, making many of the stories told about the 93 bombing questionable.

As far as the firemen's radios, I worked for a company that used these same type motorola radios, using the same company and repeater as the local police and fire. Unfortunately, I was the one who took care of all of the radio work (installation in trucks, maintainence, etc.) so I became familiar with their workings.

Individual radios are limited to I believe 5 watts of broadcast power. Because this is not enough power to cover the entire metropolitan area, the signal is picked up by the repeater, placed on the highest point available.

The repeater then re-broadcasts your transmission at high power, so everyone can hear it.

These radios automatically switch to "walkie talkie" mode if the repeater is unavailable. Walkie talkie mode is fairly effective in the range of less than 2000 feet, which would cover any distances at the WTC.

The radio malfunctions have got to be nothing more than a cover story for why people with police scanners didn't get the action on 911, and excuses and alibis for those in charge.

Everything about the firemen stories stinks to high heaven.

l

Phil Jayhan · 8 Nov 2010 , 22:40 PM

Radio malfunction of Motorola radios; Does this solve the mystery of the 9/11 fireman?

Original link:

YouTube - The REAL Rudy: Radios

Cheers-
phil

Phil Jayhan · 8 Nov 2010 , 22:51 PM

Was this for real or was it all a ruse? Can we check and see if these court papers and lawsuits were ever really filed? I have my doubts.

Cheers-
Phil

Original link:

The Betrayal of New York's Bravest
Home | About The Authors | Contact The Authors | Excerpts From the Book | Press Releases

New York Firefighter Families Appeal 9/11 Court's Barrier to "Justice"

Contact:
Richard J. Salem, Esq.
Salem Law Group, P.A.
Phone (88

531-3131 x3201
Fax (813) 221-8811
Richard.Salem@salemlawgroup.com

New York, NY, March 11, 2005

Families of deceased New York firefighters have taken their case against Motorola, Inc., and the City of New York to the U.S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals for review. In a precedent-setting move, nine families of firefighters who perished on September 11, 2001, are challenging Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein"s decision that shields Motorola, Inc., and the City of New York from a jury"s scrutiny of the faulty radios put in the hands of firefighters as they were ordered to ascend the burning Towers on September 11, 2001.

The families, through their attorney, Richard J. Salem, of the Salem Law Group, P.A., has offices in the District of Columbia and Florida, have enlisted a stellar team of Appellate Counsel to present their case on Wednesday, March 16, 2005, to a 3-judge panel of the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York City (40 Foley Square, 17th Floor, Courtroom 1705). Speaking for the families, Salem offered that "this is a case about accountability and responsibility" at the highest levels of corporate and political governance. Judge Hellerstein dismissed the families" case a year ago, holding that, by filing a claim with the Victim Compensation Fund, the families had foregone their right to maintain a civil action against anyone for any reason for damages sustained as a result of the terrorist attack. The families, on the other hand, are steadfast in their conviction that the Congress never intended to protect wrongdoers by paying off victims" families with Federal dollars.

The families" Appellant team consists of a renowned Constitutional Law scholar, Professor William Van Alstyne, of William and Mary College of Law, Professor William Reppy, Charles B. Lowndes Emeritus Professor of Law at Duke University School of Law, and attorney Eric Lieberman, of the New York firm Rabinowitz, Boudin, Standard, Krinsky, and Lieberman, with Richard Salem as Lead Counsel. In papers filed by the families with the Court, they begin their argument with:

On September 11, 2001, the world changed for us all. For the persons represented by plaintiffs in this action - including widows, children and parents of firefighters killed in the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers - that change was catastrophic. What was not known publicly at the time, however, but what is now confirmed by the recent The 9/11 Commission Report: Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (2004) ("Commission Report"), is that those deaths could have been prevented but for the misfeasance and culpable negligence of agents and officials of the defendants Motorola, Inc., ("Motorola") and the City of New York.

Both Motorola and City officials knew that the antiquated analog radio equipment used by the firemen would not work in high-rise buildings, and indeed that it had failed at the time of the February 26, 1993 terrorist bombing of the World Trade Center. As the Commission Report emphasizes, that faulty equipment predictably failed again on September 11. As a result, firefighters were unable to communicate with fire chiefs directing their activities and thus did not receive numerous evacuation orders, resulting in their death.

"This is an uphill battle," explains Richard Salem, "but, these families believe they certainly deserve their day in Court." The 9/11 Firefighters" case is taking on more significance as complaints about faulty Motorola radios in the hands of firefighters elsewhere, such as Philadelphia, Houston and New Jersey, have recently surfaced.

For additional information or a sample copy, contact: Richard J. Salem, (88

**22205** · 9 Nov 2010 , 00:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Jayhan

Can we check and see if these court papers and lawsuits were ever really filed?

here is a reference to the original case with judge hellerstein:
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/new...c00101/264866/

and here is the hearing against Motorola Inc. :
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1068886.html

VIRGILIO v. CITY OF NEW YORK
Lucy VIRGILIO, Personal Representative of Lawrence Virgilio, Plaintiff, Geraldine Halderman, Personal Representative of Lt. David Halderman, Eileen Tallon, Personal Representative of Sean Patrick Tallon, Gergard J. Prior, Personal Representative of Kevin M. Prior, Catherine Regenhard, Personal Representative of Christian Regenhard, Maureen L. Dewan-Gilligan, Personal Representative of Gerard P. Dewan, James Boyle, Personal Representative of Michael Boyle, Barbara Boyle, Personal Representative of Michael Boyle, Edward Sweeney, Personal Representative of Brian Sweeney, Gerald Jean-Baptiste, Co-Personal Representative of Gerard Jean Baptiste, Jr., Alexander Santora, Personal Representative of Christopher Santora, Maureen Santora, Personal Representative of Christopher Santora, Raffaela Crisci, Personal Representative of John A. Crisci and Patricia Deangelis, Personal Representative, Plaintiffs-Appellants, v. CITY OF NEW YORK and Motorola, Inc., Defendants-Appellees.

Docket No. 04-1942-CV.
Argued: March 16, 2005. -- April 29, 2005

(read more at source)

ETA - for quick reference:

Quote:

The families, through their attorney, Richard J. Salem, of the Salem Law Group, P.A., has offices in the District of Columbia and Florida, have enlisted a stellar team of Appellate Counsel to present their case on Wednesday, March 16, 2005, to a 3-judge panel of the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York City...

Phil Jayhan · 9 Nov 2010 , 02:02 AM

That was quick, thank you 22205. And welcome to the forums!

My guess is that they had so many lawsuits to give the illusion of discord, etc,.. I do not believe for a moment they could have ever amounted to anything. I think they were sham suits.

Cheers-
Phil

**Phasmatis** · 9 Nov 2010 , 14:02 PM

Hey I wanted to see how many bodies were recovered and I found this. I think some of those bodies are fake myself.

Original Link: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/bodies.html

A lot of the article wasn't posting well so I will only leave a link.

2 Nov 2010 , 09:33 AM	#2
do2read Moderator Join Date: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 1,912 Threads: 92 Thanked 4,769 Times in 1,315 Posts	Re: Revisited: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9-11 Firemen deaths and WTC radio problem The radios were the perfect excuse. No one with the NYFD will ever have to answer for the "deaths" because all blame goes to the radios. Why aren't ALL of the firemen in NY part of a class action suit against Motorola and the dealer? Their lives have been endangered, and lives lost, presumably. Why aren't ALL of the firemen's families suing, as the radios have carried all of the culpability in this matter. Where are all the ambulance chasing lawyers on this one? Go to your local Police, and ask them who their radio dealer is, then call thm and ask them how the repeater system works, and you will instantly know this story is completely bogus. Those radios automatically switch to direct transmission mode (walkie-talkie) when the repeater is unavailable or does not respond. They can also be switched to walkie-talkie manually, some models on several sub channels. These features are often used for localized communication not meant for everyone on the system. The radio story is a convenient and essential part of the Fireman hoax. Great article Phil! l __________________ "Don't worry about it - Americans don't read." Allan Dulles ...

5 Nov 2010 , 02:44 AM	#3
Phil Jayhan Admin Join Date: 23 Feb 2004 Location: Middle Earth Posts: 22,824 Threads: 2784 Blog Entries: 28 Thanked 7,881 Times in 2,899 Posts	The Day The World Shook - 93 Bombing of the WTC Original link: The Day The World Shook - 93 Bombing of the WTC Some of the material for this story was taken from the WNYF WTC issue February 26, 1993. It started like most other days. A 4 A.M. wake up, coffee and a buttered roll while driving to work at the Manhattan Central Office. At 12:18 P.M., lunch was being served when we received a call via a street alarm box at the corner of West & Liberty Streets. At the same time Engine Company 10, whose quarters are across the street from the World Trade Center, called us via radio and reported a possible transformer vault explosion on West Street near the Trade Center. Transformer vault (also called manhole) explosions are fairly common place in Manhattan, especially during wet weather. They're highly visible and normally generate numerous telephone calls to the Central Office. We didn't think this one was going to be any different. When Engine 10 advised us by radio they had a working fire in the Trade Center, we thought the transformer vault was located within the basement of the complex. Not a routine event, but still,it's only a transformer vault we thought. Normally, when a fire or emergency occurs that generates numerous phone calls, the phones stop ringing once an apparatus arrives. This time the phones never stopped. That was our first hint of a major catastrophe. Soon the calls were reporting a different condition. Smoke in the towers as far up as the 33rd floor within the first 3 minutes. The ceiling collapsed in the train station that is located on the B4 level (4th level below grade) of the complex. At this point we knew it was more than a vault. The Manhattan Central Office has 4 positions that are normally used to answer fire phones. There are 18 incoming phone lines for reporting fires or emergencies. For the next6 hours those lines rang continuously. Since calls were being received faster than we could answer them, the 911 operators were told to send the calls to any borough that had an available phone line. Very quickly all 5 borough Central Offices were being deluged with calls from stranded occupants seeking instructions. Management immediately foresaw our need for additional manpower and ordered 2 dispatchers and 1 supervisor be brought in on overtime. Calls were being received from people in both towers and the Vista Hotel. The incident commander was unable to to operate at more than 1 location so a seperate incident was opened for each location.The first box transmitted was 69 at Vesey & West Streets. When a 10-76 was transmitted (working fire in a hi-rise), this mandated the transmission of surrogate boxes 9031 and 9032. These boxes each bring an engine, ladder, and chief from Brooklyn. At this time the operation was in the underground garage of the complex. The incident commander, upon learning that we were receiving calls from both towers and the hotel, ordered seperate boxes transmitted for those locations. Boxes 8084 ( 1WTC), 8087 (2 WTC),300 (at West and Liberty Streets, for the Vista Hotel) were then transmitted. With those boxes transmitted, almost every Manhattan unit below Central Park was assigned to the incident. Numerous relocations from the outer boroughs were made to cover the vacant firehouses.The incident commander, requiring additional resources, ordered the first "borough call" in 15 years. A third alarm was transmitted for Brooklyn box 3832 at Columbia and Lorraine Streets, with the responding units directed to the World Trade Center. The blast was centered on the B2 level. It was so intense that it caused the collapse of the steel reinforced concrete floor to the floor below (B3 level), which in turn caused more collapses. Tons of debris were piled onto the B6 level floor. A steel fire door that opens to the B2 level from a stairway from the B1 level was blown off it's hinges and embedded into a wall 35 feet away. The blast just so happened to be located at the point where it could do the most damage. It knocked out the power plant for the entire complex. This plunged into darkness over 50,000 people in the Twin Towers. No lights, no elevators, no heat, and lots of soot filled smoke. Most New York City television stations have their transmitters atop tower 1.This left only 1 TV station on the air (Channel 2 WCBS). Cable reception was not interrupted as the cable head end is fed directly from the studio and not the transmitter site. Many of the trapped occupants were listening to their radios for information. In some of the offices where televisions were located, they were watching channel 2. One of the newscasters went on the air and advised people in the towers that if they were having trouble breathing, they should break out the glass window. This was the worst thing they could have done. By now the entire tower was filled with smoke and was acting like a 110 story smokestack. About that time I answered a call from someone seeking instructions. By now, we were told to tell all callers to stay where they are, block all air vents with whatever rags they could find, stay calm, and wait. The caller told me he was going to break out a window. He was on the 54th floor. I advised him not to stating that there are over 500 emergency personnel on the ground and he'd kill someone with the falling debris. Not to mention the fact that the open window will allow smoke to enter the area and vent itself. He hung up and went to break the window. I advised the radio dispatcher to let the command post know to expect falling glass from the 54th floor. Later,the newscaster was "admonished" by his supervisors. By 5 P.M. most of the incoming calls were from concerned family members of trapped civilians. This was sometimes a heart wrenching job as relatives of people who we already knew to be deceased were asking if we could find their loved ones. All we could do was give them a phone number to the information center that was set up by the police department for this purpose. Most of the other calls were from people seeking medical aide, or looking for an estimated rescue time. Given the enormity of the task of searching 110 floors and 99 elevators in each tower, there was no way I could tell them how long it would take. At approximately 11:25 P.M., the last elevator was located, occupants were removed after being in there almost 12 hours, and the incident was declared under control at 2:25 A.M., Saturday February 27. Needless to say, lunch was served cold. The blast's toll:* 6 civilians killed Over 1,000 injured 105 firefighters injured - 5 admitted to local hospitals reinforced floors almost 30 inches think blasted away on 3 levels below grade, plus a concourse level floor,leaving a crater about 150 feet in diameter at it's largest point. On the B1 level, the operations control center of the Port Authority Police Department (and the fire command station forthe comple was heavily damaged and rendered out of service. On the B2 level, various walls of elevator shafts and freshair plenums severely damaged, allowing smoke to enter and rise through the cores of both towers. Numerous concrete walls destroyed or damaged. 200,000 cubic feet of water poured into the lowest grade fromdamaged refrigeration unit supplies (from the Hudson River),sewer lines, fresh domestic water lines, steam pipes, and condensate return. Water 1.5 feet deep across the B6 level. 124 parked cars destroyed, 102 damaged. Partition walls blown out onto PATH train mezzanine. Numerous telephone conduits collapsed from ceiling onto cars (but phone service was not cut, miraculously). Fire alarm and public address systems out of service. Elevators out of service. Water cooled emergency generators shut down due to overheating when their water supply was cut. This disabled the emergency lighting. Sprinklers & standpipes out of service. 2,500 tons of rubble removed. Clean up effort involved 2,700 workers per day, plus a total of 160,000 gallons of cleaning fluid and 200,00 gallons of detergent. Restoration cost: $250,000,000. Tenants began moving back into tower 2 on March 18, 1993,tower 1 on March 29, 1993. The Vista Hotel opened early this year. The USFA issued a report on this fire. (Requires Acrobat reader.) Vital statistics of the Center * Opened for tenancy: 1970 Site: 16 acres Height of towers: 1,350 feet (2nd tallest in the world) Floor size of towers: 1 acre Rentable space in complex: 12 million square feet Average daily population: 50,000 workers, 70,000 visitors Construction: 200,000 tons of steel, 425,000 cubic yards of concrete, 43,600 windows in the 2 towers Elevators: 99 in each tower Below grade parking capacity: 2,000 cars (*) Shopping: Over 60 stores on the concourse level (streetlevel) and observation deck on the 107 floor of tower 2 () Source: Port Authority of New York/New Jersey (*) Since the incident, parking below grade has been restricted to employees of the Port Authority, and thevarious federal agency employees who work in the complex.There were 2 levels reserved for public parking. __________________ Phil Jayhan 9/11 Blog \| Phil Jayhan.Com Video Host \| Frederick Bastiats Audio of "The Law"*

8 Nov 2010 , 00:18 AM	#4
do2read Moderator Join Date: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 1,912 Threads: 92 Thanked 4,769 Times in 1,315 Posts	Re: Revisited: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9-11 Firemen deaths and WTC radio problem According to a FOIA obtained from the Port Authority, at the time of the 93 bombing the lower 32 floors of the North Tower were empty. Except for the Telephone Company, the lowest 18 floors of the South Tower were empty. This does not count the merchants at the Plaza and Concourse levels. But as far as office space is concerned, the bottom of both towers was still empty more than 20 years after their opening, making many of the stories told about the 93 bombing questionable. As far as the firemen's radios, I worked for a company that used these same type motorola radios, using the same company and repeater as the local police and fire. Unfortunately, I was the one who took care of all of the radio work (installation in trucks, maintainence, etc.) so I became familiar with their workings. Individual radios are limited to I believe 5 watts of broadcast power. Because this is not enough power to cover the entire metropolitan area, the signal is picked up by the repeater, placed on the highest point available. The repeater then re-broadcasts your transmission at high power, so everyone can hear it. These radios automatically switch to "walkie talkie" mode if the repeater is unavailable. Walkie talkie mode is fairly effective in the range of less than 2000 feet, which would cover any distances at the WTC. The radio malfunctions have got to be nothing more than a cover story for why people with police scanners didn't get the action on 911, and excuses and alibis for those in charge. Everything about the firemen stories stinks to high heaven. l __________________ "Don't worry about it - Americans don't read." Allan Dulles ...

8 Nov 2010 , 22:51 PM	#6
Phil Jayhan Admin Join Date: 23 Feb 2004 Location: Middle Earth Posts: 22,824 Threads: 2784 Blog Entries: 28 Thanked 7,881 Times in 2,899 Posts	Re: Revisited: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9-11 Firemen deaths and WTC radio problem Was this for real or was it all a ruse? Can we check and see if these court papers and lawsuits were ever really filed? I have my doubts. Cheers- Phil Original link: The Betrayal of New York's Bravest Home \| About The Authors \| Contact The Authors \| Excerpts From the Book \| Press Releases New York Firefighter Families Appeal 9/11 Court's Barrier to "Justice" Contact: Richard J. Salem, Esq. Salem Law Group, P.A. Phone (88 531-3131 x3201 Fax (813) 221-8811 Richard.Salem@salemlawgroup.com New York, NY, March 11, 2005 Families of deceased New York firefighters have taken their case against Motorola, Inc., and the City of New York to the U.S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals for review. In a precedent-setting move, nine families of firefighters who perished on September 11, 2001, are challenging Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein"s decision that shields Motorola, Inc., and the City of New York from a jury"s scrutiny of the faulty radios put in the hands of firefighters as they were ordered to ascend the burning Towers on September 11, 2001. The families, through their attorney, Richard J. Salem, of the Salem Law Group, P.A., has offices in the District of Columbia and Florida, have enlisted a stellar team of Appellate Counsel to present their case on Wednesday, March 16, 2005, to a 3-judge panel of the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York City (40 Foley Square, 17th Floor, Courtroom 1705). Speaking for the families, Salem offered that "this is a case about accountability and responsibility" at the highest levels of corporate and political governance. Judge Hellerstein dismissed the families" case a year ago, holding that, by filing a claim with the Victim Compensation Fund, the families had foregone their right to maintain a civil action against anyone for any reason for damages sustained as a result of the terrorist attack. The families, on the other hand, are steadfast in their conviction that the Congress never intended to protect wrongdoers by paying off victims" families with Federal dollars. The families" Appellant team consists of a renowned Constitutional Law scholar, Professor William Van Alstyne, of William and Mary College of Law, Professor William Reppy, Charles B. Lowndes Emeritus Professor of Law at Duke University School of Law, and attorney Eric Lieberman, of the New York firm Rabinowitz, Boudin, Standard, Krinsky, and Lieberman, with Richard Salem as Lead Counsel. In papers filed by the families with the Court, they begin their argument with: On September 11, 2001, the world changed for us all. For the persons represented by plaintiffs in this action - including widows, children and parents of firefighters killed in the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers - that change was catastrophic. What was not known publicly at the time, however, but what is now confirmed by the recent The 9/11 Commission Report: Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (2004) ("Commission Report"), is that those deaths could have been prevented but for the misfeasance and culpable negligence of agents and officials of the defendants Motorola, Inc., ("Motorola") and the City of New York. Both Motorola and City officials knew that the antiquated analog radio equipment used by the firemen would not work in high-rise buildings, and indeed that it had failed at the time of the February 26, 1993 terrorist bombing of the World Trade Center. As the Commission Report emphasizes, that faulty equipment predictably failed again on September 11. As a result, firefighters were unable to communicate with fire chiefs directing their activities and thus did not receive numerous evacuation orders, resulting in their death. "This is an uphill battle," explains Richard Salem, "but, these families believe they certainly deserve their day in Court." The 9/11 Firefighters" case is taking on more significance as complaints about faulty Motorola radios in the hands of firefighters elsewhere, such as Philadelphia, Houston and New Jersey, have recently surfaced. For additional information or a sample copy, contact: Richard J. Salem, (88 531-3131 x3201 Home \| About The Authors \| Contact The Authors \| Excerpts From the Book \| Press Releases Copyright © John Joyce, Bill Bowen 2008 - All Rights Reserved __________________ Phil Jayhan 9/11 Blog \| Phil Jayhan.Com Video Host \| Frederick Bastiats Audio of "The Law"

9 Nov 2010 , 02:02 AM	#8
Phil Jayhan Admin Join Date: 23 Feb 2004 Location: Middle Earth Posts: 22,824 Threads: 2784 Blog Entries: 28 Thanked 7,881 Times in 2,899 Posts	Re: Revisited: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9-11 Firemen deaths and WTC radio problem That was quick, thank you 22205. And welcome to the forums! My guess is that they had so many lawsuits to give the illusion of discord, etc,.. I do not believe for a moment they could have ever amounted to anything. I think they were sham suits. Cheers- Phil __________________ Phil Jayhan 9/11 Blog \| Phil Jayhan.Com Video Host \| Frederick Bastiats Audio of "The Law"

9 Nov 2010 , 14:02 PM	#9
Phasmatis Academic Join Date: 2 Mar 2010 Location: Infinity Posts: 975 Threads: 502 Thanked 492 Times in 312 Posts	Re: Revisited: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9-11 Firemen deaths and WTC radio problem Hey I wanted to see how many bodies were recovered and I found this. I think some of those bodies are fake myself. Original Link: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/bodies.html A lot of the article wasn't posting well so I will only leave a link. __________________ The Speech http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkqWj0eC6yA "Ignore My saner half, he is a bit remorseful" "The State is the great fictitious entity by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else." Frederic Bastiat