Are there apostles and prophets today?

The bible says that there are no more apostles and
prophets today because now that the Word of God is
complete, He no longer needs them!


The Word apostle means a "sent one", and a prophet
means "the oracle of God". These were offices given
supernaturally to the Body of Christ in the beginning
of this Dispensation of Grace to plant churches and to
speak God's Word til the Word of God was complete!

The bible says that God gave apostles and prophets
until the Word was complete...

Eph 4:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets;
and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of
the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and
of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man,
unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of
Christ:

Those gifts of prophecy and apostleship were temporary
til the Word was completed...

1 Cor 13...Charity never faileth: but whether there be
prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues,
they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall
vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in
part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that
which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a
child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I
thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away
childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass,
darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but
then shall I know even as also I am known.

Paul says that those gifts were "childish" and that
when perfect knowledge comes, all those partial,
childish things will go away.

So once God finished His Word with the book of 2
Timothy, now the Word of God was finished, and there is
no more need for those temporary gifts...

2 Tim 3:16-17...All scripture is given by inspiration
of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished
unto all good works.

So now, because we have all scripture, God no longer
uses apostles/prophets to edify His saints...He simply
uses men of God, who are made "perfect" thru the Word
rightly divided to be ministers, elders, and bishops to
teach His people the rightly divided Word of His Grace.





Courtesy of: http://www.unlockyourbible.com/

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Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Colossians 2:8 (KJV)

Let's break these verses so we can read and understand these better:

1. He = God/ Jesus? According to Ephesians 4 "he" refers to "the One who climbed up", or (yes) Jesus.

2. "He" gave gifts. There are:
- for some He gave apostles
- for some He gave prophets
- for some He gave evangelists
- for some He gave pastors and teachers

3. The purpose of these gifts is
- for the perfecting of the saints
- for the work of the ministry
- for the edifying of the body of Christ

4. when is the time limit of these gifts? when will the purpose be considered achieved?
- until we all come to the unity of the faith
- until we all come to the knowledge of the Son of God
- until we all come unto a perfect man
- until we all come unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ

I do not see anywhere in the verses which I just broke down above that it says that. When I still went to a European reformed church, this was indeed what they taught me. But deep down my heart, I knew there is nothing in those verses that actually says that. I always wondered whether this was an interpretation by human beings because the conclusion regarding these verses is quite far off.

If you see point 3 and 4 above, you will clearly see that nothing about "the Word of God" being complete is mentioned in the verses. The verses don't say "the gifts have stopped because the Word of God is complete". The completion of the Word of God is neither in the purpose nor in the time limit.

Instead, the verses say that the gifts were given for these purposes:
- for the perfecting of the saints
- for the work of the ministry
- for the edifying of the body of Christ

Are these purposes achieved already? Are the saints (namely you and me, believers) perfect already that we don't need the gifts? Is the work of the ministry done? Does the body of Christ not need anymore education or bible study? I seriously do not think so!

Let's see again what the "time limit" of these gifts are:
- until we all come to the unity of the faith
- until we all come to the knowledge of the Son of God
- until we all come unto a perfect man
- until we all come unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ

Is there anybody here that thinks he/ she has come to all those above? Have you really gained full knowledge of the Son of God? Have you really become a perfect man? Have you really reached the measure of Christ's fullness? Because if you do, THEN the gifts will be stopped.

And once again, I doubt that this is the case.


I do agree that we now have the scripture. That was what I was taught about at the European reformed church I was in.

But deep in my heart, I always wondered... what, that's it? God stops revealing himself because the scripture is written and the canon is done? Then I came to a very bothering question...

How many of you here have read the bible from Genesis to Revelation more than 1 time? It is easy to finish reading it 3 times in one year, if you are discipline enough.

So, what does it mean? Does it mean we know God inside out and upside down, skin to soul to spirit... the knowledge of God is complete? Not only complete but you've pretty much know EVERYTHING about God since you can read the bible 3 times a year from cover to cover.

I believe our God is way way way greater than any bible can actually summarize. I believe there are millions of things not written in the bible because God is just too huge for a tiny 66 book bible to actually hold.

Remember what John wrote in John 21 last verse:

And here, John was only talking about Jesus who only lived for 33 years on planet earth. How could a tiny little 66 book bible be claimed as a finished "summary" of the Great Father who has lived from the beginning even BEFORE the foundation of the earth... and then about the Holy Spirit AND Jesus all together?

I refused to believe that MY God is that small. Easily put into a 66 book bible.

My point is this. Saying that God has stopped giving gifts and stopped prayers of tongues (which sometimes contain prophecies and God's revelation) just because "the Word of God is done" is not only deceiving cause it's nowhere stated in the Bible apparently... and it is also like putting God into a box so He can retire. And that is so not right!... (I would say, to think like that is somewhat Illuminatic or Masonic to make people believe that God has retired and no longer in charge of the world... but I will leave this discussion for some other time.)

The truth is the Father's work even in Genesis, the creation, is not done yet. Doesn't He still create wonderful little creatures in the womb of their moms? Doesn't He still convert killers into evangelist as He did with Paul? Does he not still create new creations from sinners to saints in Jesus?

Remember John 5:17, where Jesus said,

I am not saying you should believe that there are still apostles and prophets. Or that prophecies and prayers of tongues still exist. Ask God and find out yourself.

What I'm saying is to keep your mind open because if God took thousands of years to teach Israel about one God as opposed to multiple-deity... it would probably take even more than thousands of years to teach the whole world about the complicated Trinity. The Bible, apostles, prophets, prayers in tongues, prophecies, God speaking in dreams, in visions, healing, raising of the dead, walking on water, stopping the storm and all other things... could still be happening until now in order to show the world really who the Great and unlimited Almighty God is.

Just think about it. Think and pray.

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Personal Finance | Villas in Bali

God gives us everything we need in this world for spiritual growth and salvation in his Word the Bible.

If it isnt in the word it isnt needed for us today according to God.

if you look at what needed to happen to be an apostle, you had to see Jesus in the flesh.

So that is not possible at all for today. as far as Prophecy, we have all
the prophecy we need to carry on in this age till Jesus comes back. We do

not have to go outside the bible and seek and pray for God to reveal more to us than what is in the bible.


Truly the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds.”(2 Cor. 12:12) The sign of an apostle was the miracles done, this distinguished them from the other believers.

Acts 2:43: “Then fear came upon every soul and many signs and wonders are done through the apostles. Acts 5:12 “And through he hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. Acts 14:3” Paul and Barnabas speak boldly in the Lord, who bears witness to His word of grace, granting signs sign and wonders to be done through their hands.”

Other requirements within this first qualification of being from John and a witness to the resurrection. He must have been taught divine truth by Jesus personally (Gal.1:1,12; 1Cor.15:3). The 11 were commissioned together as Jesus breathed on them the Holy Spirit as an indication of their unity and authority to forgive sins ads they proclaimed the Gospel. The exception is Paul who was taught personally by Christ while he was in Arabia for 3 years. (Jn.14:26, 16:13; 1 Cor.13:37) So an apostle will agree with the already commissioned apostles in Scripture.

Paul defended his apostleship in 2 Corinthians 12:11-12, using examples of signs and wonders. If these miracles and signs were common for everyone, how then could Paul use these as proof of his authority? Even when the apostles were alive, all Christians could not do signs and wonders so they certainly cannot do them today. Some of these were unusual miracle uncommon occurrences such as healing from his handkerchiefs Acts 19:12. Again, God used these miracles as witnesses to confirm His gospel as truth, and to identify His new leadership it was these men who penned down the words of the Holy Spirit that has become our New Testament. Once the scripture was completed we find no more apostles

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John 20:27 -Then saith He to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. -Yeshua

Whatever happened to this verse?

If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. - 1 Corinthians 14:37

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John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.